Lawmakers aim to curb military surplus program for police after Ferguson

[Who dat]

How are they using them? Please explain.

Why should a dept buy an $80,000 bearcat when they can get a free mrap. The MRAPs actually suck but it's better then a small dept raising taxes to fund a high risk response vehicle. Why buy M4's for your dept when you can get some used piece of **** M16s for free? Y'all need to stop fueling this ******** and focus you attention on the real problems facing this country, namely this president and congress and our standing in the world stage.

 

[ta2d_cop]

You make a lot of good points. My beef isn't really with the gun itself but rather how some people are using them.

Funny how that works out, isn't it?

Don't judge us on the ****tards you read about in the media. You don't like it when the lib gun grabbers do it to us, right?

You can't have **** both ways.

Its funny how when it's cops it's ok to stereotype, but if it's race, religion, sexual orientation, or anything else it's offensive.

Oh and PS... Most cops I know think the same way most of you (us) do, but they ain't gonna discuss that type of stuff with you on a call in a professional setting.

 

[LACamper]

A few thing in response:

Not all departments have NODs, MRAPs, and M16s. My 50 man dept has 1deuce and a half for high water rescue, and 2 30 year old AN PVS7As. Most other small departments have less than that if anything.

Cop don't need select fire rifles, but if you expect them to go into a school, mall, church or other public building after 1 or more active shooters you better hope they have a semi auto AR or other rifle. Simply put, I won't go without one. I'm not waking into a killing field with a only a glock.

You take my armor and I'm done. Period. At that point you may as well take the guns too.

All in all, most of the stuff you read about in the media about police militarization are either departments that went ape **** crazy overboard on getting cheap high speed low drag toys, in which case you have a bigger problem than the toys, you may want to look at the decision makers.. The other is media sensationalism. You do have the exceptions but for the most part threw fit in these 2 categories.

Do mistakes get made? Are bad decisions made? Do we have our share of idiots at all levels? Of course we do and I won't defend them for a second, but is taking tools away from LE as a whole the answer? I would think probably not. Sometimes **** happens. Baby's get burned with a flash bang. It sucks but does that mean get rid of the bang?

D

Small departments are not what I'm worried about, its the big cities. I have much more faith in the small departments applying common sense rather than just following orders.

I have no problem with police having soft armor. That is just common sense. Plate carriers are a bit over the top. I could care less if police wear boots vs dress shoes.

Armored MRAP's are unnecessary. Let the police have hmmwv's, sure. We're paying a bundle of tax money for MRAP's, and still buying them. Keep those for Afghanistan, don't give them to police officers. If they're still viable, use them, if they're not then sell them for surplus. Police don't need MRAP's. Rioters aren't deploying mines.

The problem is the mindset. Police start looking like military, then they start thinking like military. That's the concern.

 

[Leonidas]

Correct me if I am wrong, can't civilians purchase full auto rifles? Legally or illegally civilians can get their hands on full auto and beyond so by using the equal armament theory leo are entitled to pretty much everything except womd

That's like saying a 1000 dollar poll tax before you can vote isn't effectively denying your right to vote. How many "civilians" (I say citizens) can afford to play the full auto game. So, no, the playing field ain't level.

 

[Who dat]

You are misinformed and this type of thinking is exactly what is fueling this nonsense.
If your family member was in LE would you say plates are over the top? Vests stop handgun rounds not rifle. Again, the MRAPs are free. They will either be scrapped or sold/given to a foreign military. If people are rioting then damn right I'm going to dress like a jack booted thug to make sure I go home to my family after a shift. The police react to the threats use of force. All you see is regular uniform until the **** hits the fan then the scary militarized look and protection is warranted.

 

[ta2d_cop]

I have no problem with police having soft armor. That is just common sense. Plate carriers are a bit over the top.

So I deserve to be protected from a handgun, but not the AK that most of the NOLA thugs have access to? That makes perfect sense....

Once again, YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. Do I deserve the chance to survive a deadly encounter or not? Do you understand the certification levels of soft armor? Do you know soft armor won't stop some or most 17 HMR or 22 mag, much less any center fire rifle rounds? Do you know that the average soft armor may stop a round but the wearer still can be temporarily incapacitated by the impact and suffer severe soft tissue trauma?

I'm not trying to be a dick, but who the **** do you think we deal with all day everyday? BS members? We deal with the worst of the worst society has to offer when you or yours call for help, cut us some ****ing slack. We deserve to be as safe as we can within reason. I hardly think a multi-strike plate is to much to ask for when some ******* is shooting your kid's school up.

 

[Leonidas]

As long as some ass***e isn't shooting up my neighbor's house on a bad no knock while wearing those plates. I think that's a more real possibility than your school shooting scenario.

 

[freedive10]

As long as some ass***e isn't shooting up my neighbor's house on a bad no knock while wearing those plates. I think that's a more real possibility than your school shooting scenario.

What do plates have to do with it!?

 

[ta2d_cop]

As long as some ass***e isn't shooting up my neighbor's house on a bad no knock while wearing those plates. I think that's a more real possibility than your school shooting scenario.

Based on what, exactly? There are exponentially more "good" ops than bad that nobody ever hears about. Of course it's all over when something gets ****ed up.

And once again, I'm not going to defend the ****ups but there are way more good situations than what is put out there...remember, this is the same media that we accuse of pushing an agenda on every other front, but they can be trusted in how they represent LE?!?


You can take it all if you want, but the response you receive is a result of the protection afforded to me by the equipment you are so adamantly opposed to me having access to. Remember that when it's gone and someone is threatening to shoot the place up.

Contrary to what may be thought, there is no law, rule, policy or otherwise stating LE has a duty to interdict violent criminals at the risk of their personal safety. In fact...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

 

[Leonidas]

Easy. We didn't start getting dead and maimed collaterals until they started getting the toys. I'd just like to see equivalent concern for their making it home to their families. And there have been more botched no knocks than school shootings.

 

[Leonidas]

School shootings the perp always goes to jail or his funeral.

Not so botched raids.

 

[Who dat]

You have a better shot at winning the lottery than being the victim of a wrong location, no knock warrant.

 

[Leonidas]

Don't think Jose Guerena's family will find much comfort in that.

 

[ta2d_cop]

Next up:

"I'm not anti-police but......."

**** it, I'm done.

Hope y'all never need cops with their evil toys to come save you or yours. They will probably just kill your neighbor with their plate carrier on a bad no knock then run your dog over with a MRAP.

 

[323MAR]

I have a problem with LE using the M16 or M4. I think they should have M1A rifles and HK MP5 10mm SMGs.
I have a problem with LE carrying Glock 9mm and .40 when they should have .357SIG and 10mm Glocks.

I believe LE should be able to have anything they want as long as they do not abuse their powers; just like private citizens.
Let LE have the M2 Bradly IFV for all I care. Just abolish the GCA and NFA so that government can be relived of the excessive burdens of enforcement and record keeping. Stop the stupid Drug War so that LE can enforce laws involving traditional crimes and make room in our jails for violent career criminals to serve life.

 

[LACamper]

I'm asking this seriously... how often are local cops shot at w/ AK's or AR's? Is this really that common?

 

[323MAR]

Does St John Parrish ring a bell?

 

[LACamper]

Yes, but that was a rare event. And again, I don't see most cops wearing plates. I've been razzing a few cops I know about even wearing their soft armor.

 

[Leonidas]

Next up:

"I'm not anti-police but......."

**** it, I'm done.

Hope y'all never need cops with their evil toys to come save you or yours. They will probably just kill your neighbor with their plate carrier on a bad no knock then run your dog over with a MRAP.

Aha! The cop-hater card. Always wondered if that was as effective as the race card.

Sadly, the latter is more likely than the former.

 

[freedive10]

So there has to be a certain number of incidents before we afford LEO the ability to protect themselves with the appropriate defense!? You know one thing that keeps this country ahead of many others? Its the American mentality to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.