Military: fire on US citizens!

[eagle359]

Linoleum Floors

My point was that if you wish to review the military firing on US citizens you may wish to google Kent State. I am lost on what your point is.

 

[10November1775]

Sure you do. No soldier is obligated to obey illegal orders. Else the Nuremberg trials were a horrible injustice.

How many prosecuted were enlisted? Decisions on what is lawful or not come from the top. I understand what you are saying, and theoretically you are correct. I'm just saying, in the real world things work differently. Every service member has the obligation to disobey an unlawful order, but the way the military works it would be difficult to go against the grain. Most would do what they were told; history shows that to be the rule rather than the exception.

 

[Emperor]

My point was that if you wish to review the military firing on US citizens you may wish to google Kent State. I am lost on what your point is.

And look at what happened! The hippies have the last laugh; so far?!?

Grow up in 60's > Protest War > Get shot upon at Kent State (and euphemistically all over) > Teach (as academians in the country's colleges), their kids to ruin their country in return!

Next move?

 

[Leonidas]

And look at what happened! The hippies have the last laugh; so far?!?

Grow up in 60's > Protest War > Get shot upon at Kent State (and euphemistically all over) > Teach (as academians in the country's colleges), their kids to ruin their country in return!

Next move?

God, how I love a well spoken pessimist?

 

[JNieman]

My point was that if you wish to review the military firing on US citizens you may wish to google Kent State. I am lost on what your point is.

My point is that saying two words without an explanation says nothing. If you're using Kent State as an explanation of some point you should expand on it... we will likely all derive different conclusions and lessons from it. Such as me, for example, I don't believe it would/could happen again, right now, from the Federal Government.

 

[Leonidas]

My point is that saying two words without an explanation says nothing. If you're using Kent State as an explanation of some point you should expand on it... we will likely all derive different conclusions and lessons from it. Such as me, for example, I don't believe it would/could happen again, right now, from the Federal Government.

I don't think so from the military.

I'm damned sure it could from the Feds.

 

[JNieman]

I don't think so from the military.

I'm damned sure it could from the Feds.

Sorry, I did choose my words poorly. I mostly agree with you. I was intending to mean 'Federal Government' as in full on military.

I do believe the ATF, FBI, DHS and the other alphabet soup agencies have the mentality of every citizen being a criminal until proven otherwise, and that they have no qualms shooting first and asking questions later, unfortunately. Their track record has been one with too much innocent blood and little to no accountability. The military mishaps have had accountability and have evolved... the federal agencies have not.

 

[10November1775]

It has happened in the past and it will happen again. And after it happens, some years later, everyone will say "we're sorry, those were different circumstances, that would never happen again, the government/military wouldn't do that to its own citizens."

If your adversary has underestimated you, you have already won the first battle.

 

[Emperor]

Sorry, I did choose my words poorly. I mostly agree with you. I was intending to mean 'Federal Government' as in full on military.

I do believe the ATF, FBI, DHS and the other alphabet soup agencies have the mentality of every citizen being a criminal until proven otherwise, and that they have no qualms shooting first and asking questions later, unfortunately. Their track record has been one with too much innocent blood and little to no accountability. The military mishaps have had accountability and have evolved... the federal agencies have not.

Illustrated by the accountability flow chart below: (just fill in the blanks with current administration heads).

 

[eagle359]

Waco

 

[dantheman]

Kent State is a bad example . Four days of looting , starting fires and stoning the Police had people on edge .

 

[cajun 22]

There may be some substance to this. Maybe. A good friend of mine just came home from two deployments and was asked some disturbing questions on his exit interview. The big one was, if ordered to would he fire on US citizens? His answer was " I will not fire upon the very people I risked my life for. Sorry, I'm not your guy."

 

[GunAddict]

This past week a man calls in to a radio show. Don't remember if former enlisted or still is but he said he was on the ground during Katrina and had orders to shoot if resistance occurred. He said at that time being newly enlisted he would have as he wanted to do a good job following orders. He said now he would not and really felt bad about what he did then. And most of those there would have fired if needed to. I believe that is the case with most of the newly enlisted, most will follow whatever order given. It is the older members that have learned different. Even with NOPD, a friend now retired from there said he tried to tell the new officers you can't just go and take peoples guns, but they did not listen to him. They were doing what they were told to do. I still question why homeland security needs 1.6 million rounds of hp, being that is enough to shoot every man, woman, and child several times here in the states. Are they gonna arm the tsa and send them forth??

 

[Jack]

This past week a man calls in to a radio show. Don't remember if former enlisted or still is but he said he was on the ground during Katrina and had orders to shoot if resistance occurred. He said at that time being newly enlisted he would have as he wanted to do a good job following orders. He said now he would not and really felt bad about what he did then. And most of those there would have fired if needed to. I believe that is the case with most of the newly enlisted, most will follow whatever order given. It is the older members that have learned different. Even with NOPD, a friend now retired from there said he tried to tell the new officers you can't just go and take peoples guns, but they did not listen to him. They were doing what they were told to do. I still question why homeland security needs 1.6 million rounds of hp, being that is enough to shoot every man, woman, and child several times here in the states. Are they gonna arm the tsa and send them forth??

There are way more than 1.6 million people in the states, like 200 times that.

 

[10November1775]

Not sure how that could have happened since not very many "military" people even had ammo or magazines for their firearms. Perhaps he meant he was a killer mercenary from Blackwater.

Where'd you get that info?

 

[Peacemaker]

So it's not just police it's uniforms in general? Are nurses evil too?

What are you talking about?

 

[Jack]

What are you talking about?

I was just commenting that I was noticing a trend. First police are bad, now military is bad, I wasn't sure if it was all people who wear uniforms or what.

 

[Bayoupiper]

This past week a man calls in to a radio show. Don't remember if former enlisted or still is but he said he was on the ground during Katrina and had orders to shoot if resistance occurred. He said at that time being newly enlisted he would have as he wanted to do a good job following orders. He said now he would not and really felt bad about what he did then. And most of those there would have fired if needed to. I believe that is the case with most of the newly enlisted, most will follow whatever order given. It is the older members that have learned different. Even with NOPD, a friend now retired from there said he tried to tell the new officers you can't just go and take peoples guns, but they did not listen to him. They were doing what they were told to do. I still question why homeland security needs 1.6 million rounds of hp, being that is enough to shoot every man, woman, and child several times here in the states. Are they gonna arm the tsa and send them forth??

We were told to defend ourselves.
To return fire if we were fired upon and could engage the shooter(s).
We were never told to shoot unarmed resistors.

When they instructed us to confiscate firearms, my agency refused as did the National Guard units with us.

The only ones I personally saw taking firearms were NOPD officers.


Regardless, firearms were taken.
Not as many as the media would like you to think, but even one was too many.
I met no one down there who was armed that acted in any threatening manner towards us.


From what I saw after Katrina, I really do not think there will be enough "Feds" willing to go out and actually take firearms from people.



.

 

[Peacemaker]

I was just commenting that I was noticing a trend. First police are bad, now military is bad, I wasn't sure if it was all people who wear uniforms or what.

Man... You are ridiculous..

I don't have a problem with police or anybody else in uniform..

 

[Jack]

Man... You are ridiculous..

I don't have a problem with police or anybody else in uniform..

I must either have misread your post or misjudged your character. I would've sworn you said something along the lines of the troops would shoot civilians, or be shot. Personally I take issue with anyone who shoots civilians or our service members. So, do you no longer think they would shoot civilians or do you not have an issue with that?

I don't think a lot of the people on here realize what they are saying when they say it.