Improvement Time Part Two---Update in post #160

[S&W4ME]

The bearpit was a place for ads that didn't conform to the normal rules. Pretty much for those who were too lazy to post pictures, or whatever. The marketplace is much better with good looking ads that conform to a set structure.

I think the main reason people want to allow comments back is because of all the fun that was had dogging and degrading people's threads. Some posts turned into a circus and were fun to read and participate in. All in all, none of the comments helped sell items or contributed to the forum in a positive way. That's why comments were disallowed. If a seller's ad is descriptive and has all the proper information, the only discussion should be the price and where to meet, and that should stay in PM. Comments that would be used for questions only are silly. If someone has a question that wasn't answered in the description of the item being sold, it means that the seller did not do a good enough job when posting the thread.

If we allow comments in the marketplace again and crack down and say they can only be used for questions. No saying "nice gun". No comments other than questions if you are interested in buying the gun. The circus will not be back like it was before. Most people will use PMs if they have questions anyway. I don't see much changing from the way it is now, except maybe people will ask questions via comments occasionally. If someone were to post a question on a thread, we would not allow the OP to respond to it as it would get in the way of the bump rule, which is to ensure the marketplace is fair to all.

We have discussed this issue in great depth before, both publicly and in the internal mod forum. Pretty much it comes down to people wanting to be able to comment on threads because it was fun in the past. If we were to allow it again, it would not be fun for anyone. It would be to help people sell their items quicker and more efficiently. Previously, the marketplace was fun and people were commenting left and right on posts, commenting on how unrealistic peoples' prices were, and etc. All in all, that type of discussion did not help the seller at all. Often it made the person look bad and they would leave the forum all together. It was not a happy, fair, selling experience. That is not what we want. The marketplace is what drives the initial traffic to this site. People come here to buy or sell things and THEN they decide to participate in the rest of the forum. We have plenty of statistics that prove this.

So, if you guys ABSOLUTELY want people to be able to ask questions about an item in the marketplace, I could be convinced. I just don't see that being the urge. It is super easy to PM people. Most people don't have problems with PMs. Hell, a majority of the people who use the marketplace probably don't care at all about comments. If questions need to be asked, it means the seller didn't do a good enough job initially...so if they get lots of PMs, it is their fault.

I withdrawal my original suggestion. Leave it just the way it is.

 

[alpinehyperlite]

In regards to the comments on classifieds, is there a way to disable a comment bumping a thread to the top of the page, and instead make a button or link that re-introduces the thread as a bump to send it to the top that is able to be hit once every 24 hours?

 

[AustinBR]

Great Idea!

It seemed it was a vocal few that got the comments thrown out in the first place, at least that is how it looked at to me from the outside. I am trying to frequent the board more often, I want to support it, and I want to support Jeremy. I learned a lot here, a more open classifieds sounds like it would make a lot of members happy. And we are all in agree, even those for and against comments in the classifieds that posts like "Nice gun and great price" should be eliminated. I would post more guns for sale, but it is more productive on Facebook where people can ask questions. I might not sell them the gun I have posted, but might end up selling them a gun through their questions. 90% of selling is listening to what the customer wants and asking the right questions.

There is a big difference between sponsor selling and normal person selling though. Most people don't have an inventory that they are trying to sell. People can ask questions on the forums though...if you post an ad, someone can PM you and ask you questions that can lead to you selling them something else. I don't see why PMs don't work just as well as comments. Any insight?

 

[AustinBR]

In regards to the comments on classifieds, is there a way to disable a comment bumping a thread to the top of the page, and instead make a button or link that re-introduces the thread as a bump to send it to the top that is able to be hit once every 24 hours?

No.

 

[AustinBR]

I withdrawal my original suggestion. Leave it just the way it is.

Which proves my point that many of y'all are looking for the old circus style threads of the past that served no benefit to the seller or to the board. If the whole idea is to allow questions to be public, then why do you have a problem with only allowing questions from those that are interested in buying the item? It would accomplish what everyone (above) is saying and would prevent the circus style atmosphere that got the comments removed in the first place.

 

[S&W4ME]

Which proves my point that many of y'all are looking for the old circus style threads of the past that served no benefit to the seller or to the board. If the whole idea is to allow questions to be public, then why do you have a problem with only allowing questions from those that are interested in buying the item? It would accomplish what everyone (above) is saying and would prevent the circus style atmosphere that got the comments removed in the first place.

Go back and reread my posts. Please take your time. I said on post #4 of this thread to only allow comments that serve a purpose. I even spelled it out for you on post #19. You were the one who said the only reason they would have questions is because the seller isn't descriptive enough in his post.

Christ, sometimes I feel like I'm beating my head up against the wall.

 

[AustinBR]

Go back and reread my posts. Please take your time. I said on post #4 of this thread to only allow comments that serve a purpose. I even spelled it out for you on post #19. You were the one who said the only reason they would have questions is because the seller isn't descriptive enough in his post.

Christ, sometimes I feel like I'm beating my head up against the wall.

I know the feeling. So with all of that in mind...would any of y'all want to be able to ask questions in the thread or does PMing work? I think the idea of a commentable (new word) marketplace might please both sides...thoughts on that would be great too.

Also, other ideas to discuss besides comments in the marketplace are welcome too...from anyone!!

 

[Suburbazine]

I don't use the marketplace, so I don't have a dog in the fight LOL.

OH! Fix the black/red theme up a bit- there's stuff like Jack that gets lost in the darkness and profile areas that are white text on white background. Maybe 3Dify (shadow) the moderator's names so they stand out (slightly) more.

 

[Booseman]

I just personally hate PM's, it is pain the majority of the time.

I do agree that if people post a complete and proper add then most questions will be answered. But sometimes there are questions that multiple people have. For that reason it is easier to answer/ask them in the add.

There are also some people that ask questions that others may not even think of. So those could be answered in the add.

I am not against a separate section for adds that allow comments but it could get very confusing really fast.

 

[dwr461]

I can not find where the rules are listed now. So bear with my memory here, please.

Rule 9 says something to the effect that no user may question a mod or admin either in public or private for an decision that has been made. I find that rule to be highly offensive. I goes counter to the very core of beliefs. It creates an us versus them.

I have found that the moderators do not adopt a helpful tone to the posts. The tone I freqently read is do what I say b/c if you don't you must be stupid. They get very confrontational and takes things way too personally.

This doesn't absolve a user from also having the same problems and they should be handled consitantly the same way. Not one way for one who's a friend and another for someone people don't like. The rules must be fair and evenly inforced with out prejudice.

Some of the moderators as not very good at this. I asume that you are aware of this problem b/c you have handle quite a few of their decisions after they are made.

Also a mod can with out talking to the user award penelties. In some cases they penelties have been removed after the fact. That sounds to that mod's judge someone guilty and start the punishment without ever talking to the individual. The rights of the individual are sancrosant in the country. If a mod has a problem they should go to someone else to discuss it. They that other person should talk to the person who caused the problem. Then if a punishment is warrented it should be placed not by the original moderator.

A system like one above would reduce knee jerk bull crap and hopefully make the various punishments uniform to the misbehavior.

Dave

 

[dwr461]

Double post. Sorry.

 

[kcinnick]

There is a big difference between sponsor selling and normal person selling though. Most people don't have an inventory that they are trying to sell. People can ask questions on the forums though...if you post an ad, someone can PM you and ask you questions that can lead to you selling them something else. I don't see why PMs don't work just as well as comments. Any insight?

Yeah, threads that get more questions and answers sell items faster! That is why everyone wants the comments back. Even not as a sponsor, I spent way more time wearing a premium member hat than a sponsor hat, and you could sell something in minutes on the old classifieds. Now I put GOOD stuff in there, and nothing. I put it on facebook and I get instant response. I have some 1911's, XDS's, Shields, some unicorn type guns for sale, and I just watch for the WTB's and cold PM folks about them, it is the best method I have now to sell on Bayoushooter. I know I have a great opportunity coming up to sell some things, and my lower group buy has done well, considering I fronted all the costs anyway, it was just a way to offer a discount to early adopters and get my lowers out fast when they come through the door. I need to put the computer away, I keep buying guns. A couple distributors purge old orders over night, so I find my self waiting for the websites to come up with those unicorns that are harder to get. People wonder how I can fulfill special requests like a 9.5" Ruger Redhawk in less than 12 hours...

 

[Sulzer]

I feel like I have had the same amount of success selling with the comments and without. People who complain about the amount of PM'd questions now are just posting lazy ads. For instance, S&W4ME, you were the first to give an example so I will pick on you.

I'm selling a gun. 3 potential buyers have the same question about the gun, let's say round count. Rather than having 3 different people PM or Email me and having me respond according one can ask the question in the thread and it can be answered.

You have been a member for over 4 years and have amassed almost 4,000 post, and you haven't figure out yet that you should include round count in your classified ads? For everyone, as firearm enthusiast you should have a good idea of what you would want to get out of a for sale ad. Hit the 'preview' button instead of 'post' and read your ad and look at the pictures. Think about any questions you left unaddressed.

Not having comments also helps individuals who are trying to sell 'less sexy' items. For instance, hunting rifles and shotguns seem to move the slowest on this site. With the comments on those threads sink like a sack of rocks and get little exposure, which decreases the chance of selling. With the current system at least those items stay on the first or second page for 24hrs. Also, I feel like the majority of comments were butthurt individuals who couldn't afford guns they wanted.

Comments or not; it doesn't matter to me. Austin, check out what they are doing at AR15.com. OP can only bump their thread like once every 3 days. Any post by the OP in the thread doesn't bring the thread to the top. Post from others does bring the thread to the top. So essentially, asking a question in a thread would move it to the top, but the OP responding would not. Then once every three days you have to go and manually click the 'bump thread' button.

 

[Leonidas]

How many maufacturers? How many models? How many features? How many issues?

I am not denying the problems with the old system in classifieds.

But I found them to be a great resource of information and learning tool. I spent a lot of time reading ads for guns in which I had no interest. More than a few times I wound up developing an interest. I found the comments to be a safety against my ignorance of various firearms. I.E., would probably never have known of the issue of canted sights on Romy AK's. Almost bought one. Instead, I picked up a few sweet Yugos. Also learned about their heavier receivers right there, in the marketplace.

On balance, the positives of comments outweighed the negatives.

But, my opinion and 4 dollars will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

 

[trigger643]

Having been a moderator on several other gun forums over the years, I recognize the benefits and problems with allowing parties other than the seller to post in the for-sale section. A free bump for 'a great gun' or 'a great guy' is, in the big scheme of forum management, a bit annoying but really doesn't cause any harm and allows other members to feel as if they are contributing to a sales' success. Of course, when you've got to review a few hundred posts a day and a large portion of them contain no material value to the forum or its membership, these posts do wear on one.

Where problems arise most frequently in the classifieds is when members post critical or disparaging remarks on the seller or sale. On one forum we were able to reduce this activity by restricting those who could post in the classifieds to time of membership (90 days), and number of over-all posts in other sections (25). This also cut down on the number and frequency of BS classifieds. Of course, these limitations were waived for premium members, but TOS violations were dealt with quickly, with no preference given to membership ranking or forum support status.

We also automatically deleted ads that had no activity after a set time (usually 30 days).

 

[Ritten]

I feel like I have had the same amount of success selling with the comments and without. People who complain about the amount of PM'd questions now are just posting lazy ads. For instance, S&W4ME, you were the first to give an example so I will pick on you.

You have been a member for over 4 years and have amassed almost 4,000 post, and you haven't figure out yet that you should include round count in your classified ads? For everyone, as firearm enthusiast you should have a good idea of what you would want to get out of a for sale ad. Hit the 'preview' button instead of 'post' and read your ad and look at the pictures. Think about any questions you left unaddressed.

THIS. If a person has so many for sale ads that they can't thoughtfully plan out the advertisement and information associated with the item then they need to have a sponsor's account and be able to post in that section which allows comments. Haggling over trades and pricing should be for PM's. Allowing "legitimate questions" will lead to legitimate sarcastic questions regarding pricing/gouging/ect.

 

[Neil09]

This might sound stupid, but I for one do a lot of reading through threads to pass the time. I was always a member only here because there was enough threads to keep me busy, not now. I don't know if it's because of no discussion in the marketplace, but overall it seems to have slowed down around here, sending traffic elsewhere. Just my .02.

 

[LACamper]

I think Neil is on target. Yes, we miss the circus that classifieds were. Every item listed for sale was a new topic to discuss! If the sellers don't want to be subjected to that let them go to sportsmans or gunbroker or whatever. Its free here. If they overprice that tactical hipoint then they deserve some bashing... Yes, it requires a bit more work for the mods to control the personal attacks, but it would be worth the effort.

As an alternative we could set up a second classified section where people could disallow comments.

While the classified issue was a major topic of discussion on the board, it wasn't the only problem. BS.com had a pride of membership for lack of a better term. Its lost that when Mel and Spanky split. Obviously getting them back together for the sake of the board is out of the question but the mods need to get organized. Some live social events, informal matches, etc. Also, we lost some of the very good original members, it would be nice to invite some of them back once bs.com is back to its former level.

 

[mrmojo32]

I have been away from the forum for a while and have recently come back and I noticed the change right away. I too used to browse the firearms classifieds and even look at the ones I was not interested in because of the information found in the comments.

 

[bravo3]

It seems like you already have you're mind made up, so I'm sure this comment will amount to a pile of beans but I'd like to see comments back in the classifieds. Like I said, you asked for suggestions and 70% of these comments are about this. I really don't see a problem with opening a poll and letting the board members vote on the issue. It seems to me if I moderated the board and 3/4 of the board were asking for something, regardless of if I as a moderator consider it a solid idea I would look into implementing it. As Neil09 said, this is place seems to have slowed to a crawl except for the handful of about 10-15 members that post all day. None of which is entertaining.