9MM vs. 40 S&W

[Tulse Luper]

Clear example of the misnomer Knock Down Power. Comrade deflects about ~0.5 inches. He's not even knocked off balance, much less down.

 

[GunRelated]

Well, looks like I stand corrected and have a new point of view on the subject.

 

[Gator 45/70]

So...Since i cast and load some of my own bullet's,In fact if i loaded a 160gn. SWC backward's in the shell using the same measure of powder 3.4gns. Bullseye...Would i not then have more knockdown power ?

 

[SGT_Kramer]

Well I wore out google and didn't find this compact glock that shoots 12 gauge slugs so I guess I'd stick with the 26.

 

[olivs260]

Clear example of the misnomer Knock Down Power. Comrade deflects about ~0.5 inches. He's not even knocked off balance, much less down.

Damn... homeboy was ready to quit after 2 rounds though, huh? I think that speaks to the effectiveness of body armor to me. It'll save your life, but it won't make it fun!

 

[Brian22]

I love my .40 g27, its the weapon i trust my life to in a situation. I've shot plenty of 9mm in my day, and honestly cant really tell a difference in followup shots. that said, I've never shot them side by side, shooting one, putting it down, then the other. anyone near laffy w a g26 wanna hit the range? id like to shoot them side by side. FWIW, if you want to pack .357 Sig, you can get a drop in barrel for a g27 and shoot it, if you desire.

That said, the best weapon for you is the one you feel most comfortable protecting youself and your family with. In my limited research, I believe a 9 will stop a threat just as well as a .40, given that most defensive shootings are within what, 15 feet of the target? in fact, if you're more comfortable shooting/following up with a 9, it will serve YOU better than a .40, and you'll have an extra round or 2 once you get to the bottom of your mag.

My advice would be to stop researching immediately and go shoot a 26 and 27 side by side.. see what you like. if your near laffy, lets go shoot! that's what this site is for. you bring your 26, and ill provide my 27; like i said, I'd be interested to shoot them side by side myself.



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[Brian22]

A 9mm WILL shoot fine through Glass, we have done it in class without issues last one being the Talon Defense Class that Brannon, William (NOLATAC) & I attended. You just have to understand the angle in which it will deflect and be able to account for distance as well.

The more distance the more angle factor, at one car length there is about a 4-6" difference from POA to POI, then the angle of the glass + the angle in which the bullet hits the glass will dictate if its up, down or to any of the sides. Also tint on a window will make it act in weird ways and the front and back windshield are harder/thicker than side windows so I would take a side shot any day with less deflect than a front shot with high angle.

If you are worried about penetrating things go with .357Sig, its a good compromise among all calibers BUT the price to play with those rounds gets UP THERE.

If you want to really put them to test through a windshield while sitting inside the car NOLATAC is Hosting, Haley Strategic Disruptive Environments Pistol Class and there will be several vehicles to shoot though & at.

On that note, one is supposed to shoot high on a windshield, is that correct? Something about the bullet striking the lower part of the windshield first, and tilting downward? i remember it being something counterintuitive to what id thought(shoot low bc the bullet would "skip" on the way through was my original line of thought).

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[X Zombie]

just my two cents. I had both a Walther PPS in 9mm and 40cal. My follow up shots combined with accuracy with the 9mm were considerably better than the 40 using regular target ball ammo. But now when I shot defensive +p loads through the 9mm, BIG difference. I would suggest keep the 9mm and occasionally practice with the defensive loads.

 

[SpeedRacer]

On that note, one is supposed to shoot high on a windshield, is that correct? Something about the bullet striking the lower part of the windshield first, and tilting downward? i remember it being something counterintuitive to what id thought(shoot low bc the bullet would "skip" on the way through was my original line of thought).

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Correct. And the opposite from inside shooting out (the top of the bullet will strike the windshield first, causing the bullet to veer upward).

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot1.htm

 

[Guate_shooter]

One thing to consider with that car is that the standard of thickness in glass has changed in newer vehicles, old cars had thicker harder glass which acts much diferent. IIRC the standard changed in the 90's and they introduced the "safety" glass that breaks in little pieces shortly after.

Just one more thing to consider if you are worried.

 

[Brian22]

Thanks guys. sorry for the derail. offers still on the table to go shooting!

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[kcinnick]

I have heard .40 is snappy, but I don't find it snappy, I am more snappy than a .40 caliber round...

9mm is just fine, with modern day ammo you will be fine. I roll with a .9mm most of the time, .45 when I am testing a 1911 holster, sometimes it will be 9mm then, depending on the holster design.

 

[Gus McCrae]

Big holes are always better than small holes.
More ammo is always better than less.
Less recoil allows for faster follow up shots.
Modern 9mm ammo will perform well beyond good enough, even if it is smaller.
Handguns are relatively weak and the performance difference between the non-magnum calibers is small.

 

[oleheat]

I feel as comfortable as one can carrying a handgun for self-defense against humans- with either caliber.

Ditto for the .45 ACP and .357 Auto().

 

[ericlosh]

if i want a big bullet i use .45, anything .40 does better than .45, 9mm does it even better. .40 is only here thanks to massive leo support. Too bad they couldn't have adopted the 10mm.

 

[oleheat]

Are the 9mm +P+ rounds really necessary, in your opinion, LSP? Seems like a lot of unnecessary wear & tear on the weapon when the pressures are touching 40,000 PSI....

And can someone confirm what I heard about Glocks being "rated" to handle pressures up to 43,500 PSI?

 

[oleheat]

In a word... no.

When it comes to small arms terminal ballistics, velocity is king. Mass is queen. You're simply not going to get the requisite velocity (Mach 3 is the most-often agreed-upon figure) out of a service handgun. The "bigger is better" theory REALLY means "heavier is better". The bit about the bigger bullet cutting a bigger hole is rarely ever significant, because bullets don't "cut" holes in living tissue; they "push" their way through. With the exception of organs, most human flesh/tissue is like a self-sealing fuel tank... while it won't completely stop a leak, it will slow one down as it expands back in on itself after being punctured. This is why shrapnel wounds are so terrible. Shrapnel rips and tears the tissue wide open.

True enough, the +P+ 9mm offerings are kissing the edges of .357 Sig performance, and that extra bit of velocity can be significant in certain hard barrier penetration. But meat? Not so much. Might, or might not. You're right; the added wear and tear, not to mention extra flash and recoil, isn't worth the small gain IMO. I've got some Ranger 127gr +P+ 9mm. I'd use it if I was working the road and restricted to a 9mm. Otherwise, no.

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Thanks, Sir. Great points....

 

[Sin-ster]

In a word... no.

When it comes to small arms terminal ballistics, velocity is king. Mass is queen. You're simply not going to get the requisite velocity (Mach 3 is the most-often agreed-upon figure) out of a service handgun. The "bigger is better" theory REALLY means "heavier is better". The bit about the bigger bullet cutting a bigger hole is rarely ever significant, because bullets don't "cut" holes in living tissue; they "push" their way through. With the exception of organs, most human flesh/tissue is like a self-sealing fuel tank... while it won't completely stop a leak, it will slow one down as it expands back in on itself after being punctured. This is why shrapnel wounds are so terrible. Shrapnel rips and tears the tissue wide open.

True enough, the +P+ 9mm offerings are kissing the edges of .357 Sig performance, and that extra bit of velocity can be significant in certain hard barrier penetration. But meat? Not so much. Might, or might not. You're right; the added wear and tear, not to mention extra flash and recoil, isn't worth the small gain IMO. I've got some Ranger 127gr +P+ 9mm. I'd use it if I was working the road and restricted to a 9mm. Otherwise, no.

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You still on the .45 train with me, oh-newly-Christened-mod?

I seem to recall something mentioned about you and 9mm recently...

 

[chootem]

In fact, two guys at HKPro have convinced Mr. Weber (CEO of HK/USA) to build 500 special-edition HK45 Compacts with FDE frames. I'll be sending my chips and an FFL in for that puppy next week.

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Thats awesome.... would love to have one!!! sounds like you are going to have to "know" someone to get one?

 

[chootem]

Not at all. Go sign up at HKPro. There's a sticky at the top of the forum list with all the details. All you have to do is "register" in the thread, navyman will add you to the list, then you send Straightgrain the dust and an FFL... and wait. They aren't even built yet; HK wants their scratch up front. They're talking Jan/Fed 2013 delivery.

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Awesome...Thanks, going to check it out