All i can say is wow and wtf????
- Thread starter girl1911
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If you are sure that he wasn't carjacking and that was the least of our worries as you stated, then Why did you reach for your gun??? Seems like it is a good thing that you did not have a gun with you! Certainly not worth the consequences for some idiot with aggressive driving.
I'm guessing because a young lady with a burly enraged truck driver approaching her vehicle and banging on her window could/would/should feel her life may be in danger?
Best to be ready.
Just because she wasn't worried about him carjacking her doesn't mean she wasn't worried that he would assault her.
gbundersea
Just my 2¢
Interesting observations from both. A situation like this deserves careful thought. The actions of this "idiot" went way beyond aggressive driving. Someone unstable enough to come out of their vehicle, and beat on another person's window, is a DEFINITE threat. I sure is hell would view it as such! Does that threat rise to the level of imminent bodily harm? It could, very easily, and in a split second. What if he had a gun, or knife, or even a pipe or wrench? He could be through that window and kill or injure the driver in a heartbeat. I think having her gun ready is ABSOLUTELY called for. Brandished, or pointed at the guy? No.If you are sure that he wasn't carjacking and that was the least of our worries as you stated, then Why did you reach for your gun??? Seems like it is a good thing that you did not have a gun with you! Certainly not worth the consequences for some idiot with aggressive driving.
Almost the EXACT same thing happened to my concealed weapons instructor (I'll call him CI) many years ago. According to him: Pissed-off a$$hole (I'll call him POA) exited his vehicle, yelling and ranting, and approached from the front. CI first observed the guy's hands: He was unarmed. Had he been armed, option 1 was to run him over. CI grabbed his gun, but kept it concealed. POA came up to his window, still yelling, then proceeded to beat on it with his hands. CI's gun remained in hand, still unseen, but ready. There was no imminent threat of injury. POA eventually stormed off and got back in his car, at which point CI had the option to notify police of the road rage incident. He said that if POA had broken through the window, it would have constituted an imminent threat to him and his family, and he could (and probably would) have used deadly force.
Back to our own girl1911: Did she do well in this incident? Yes, and she should definitely press charges, report it to the company, etc. As for the question "What if she had her gun with her?" that depends. If all the guy did was beat on the window with his hands, then anything beyond the 911 call could have been a problem for her. However, since that situation could have easily turned into one which put her in grave danger of bodily harm, in the small instant it would have taken for the window to break, I believe having her gun ready would ABSOLUTELY have been the prudent course of action. I certainly would have felt naked and unprotected had I been in her seat, unarmed, with an unknown lunatic inches away from me, separated by only glass.
Other factors to consider: Was it possible to simply drive away? Or was she blocked in? If escape was an option, then by all means, drive away, call 911, and press charges. Unless he's got a gun, then that changes things too.
And yes, this is a lot to have to decide all in the space of a few seconds at most, and probably a lot less. Train, plan for various scenarios, and always stay vigilant and observant.
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Does her life have to be in imminent danger for her to use deadly force in that situation?
CUJOHUNTER
EARPLUGS??
Definitely always have your gun with you no matter what. Find ways to secure it in your vehicle if you have to leave it in there temporarily.
If the guy had broken the window, that would definitely constitute as emminent danger IMO. Wether it was intentional or accidental breakage, the intent to verbally assault was there and property damages are now in play. Flying glass can be potentially dangerous and pose as a hazard. At the point that a primary barrier is broken that now constitutes a force on force level situation. There's no determining the situation anymore...it's time to save your ass!
If the guy had broken the window, that would definitely constitute as emminent danger IMO. Wether it was intentional or accidental breakage, the intent to verbally assault was there and property damages are now in play. Flying glass can be potentially dangerous and pose as a hazard. At the point that a primary barrier is broken that now constitutes a force on force level situation. There's no determining the situation anymore...it's time to save your ass!
CUJOHUNTER
EARPLUGS??
That's the way a jury would like to see it.
Although we all know that these thresholds of the law are pure BS,we have to mind are "Ps & Qs" in this liability concious world we live in. It's unfortunate that we have to live with such scrutiny when it comes to protecting yourself because I come from the school that believes everyone is guilty and up to no good.
wfarrell1
Well-Known Member
I would definally say keep the gun concealed but at hand. Because when/if the glass breaks its already too late to locate or try to grab the gun.... Also more than likely being she is female and much smaller then the male aggressor, the police would probably be more forgiving on a brandishing charge.
tupperware9mm
Well-Known Member
Rob Pincus did a segment similar to this a couple of years back. But in his scenario, BG approached the window with a crow bar and started his swing backstroke. Clear cut.
But one part of that segment came to mind as I thought about what I would have done in Girl1911's place. Pincus was carrying in an IWB at 3 or 4 o'clock. He unholstered his gun when he saw BG approaching. If you carry that way, as I do, there is a logistical concern that you have to overcome that may cause you to be judged to have brandished. To get to the gun, you have to unbuckle your seatbelt and move your shirt. I certainly don't want to be fumbling with all that if he's coming through the glass or threatening to. But if you preemptively draw and BG sees you in progress (ie out of the holster but not yet tucked out of view), are you brandishing?
This is really a rhetorical question. The only definitive answer is what the po-po, and then a judge would rule given the facts and circumstances.
But, the practical planning aspect is real. My decision is to have my gun IN my hand, out of sight if possible, but IN my hand. This scenario could have gone from bad to deadly in one second. I'd rather have my gun and risk a brandishing charge related to the draw process than wish I had pulled while I'm at the ER.
Final thought: I remember reading an old post by Guate where he stated his procedure is to move his shirt over his gun before he buckles his seatbelt, a good procedure that I have taken up. You just have to remember to cover it when you exit the car!
But one part of that segment came to mind as I thought about what I would have done in Girl1911's place. Pincus was carrying in an IWB at 3 or 4 o'clock. He unholstered his gun when he saw BG approaching. If you carry that way, as I do, there is a logistical concern that you have to overcome that may cause you to be judged to have brandished. To get to the gun, you have to unbuckle your seatbelt and move your shirt. I certainly don't want to be fumbling with all that if he's coming through the glass or threatening to. But if you preemptively draw and BG sees you in progress (ie out of the holster but not yet tucked out of view), are you brandishing?
This is really a rhetorical question. The only definitive answer is what the po-po, and then a judge would rule given the facts and circumstances.
But, the practical planning aspect is real. My decision is to have my gun IN my hand, out of sight if possible, but IN my hand. This scenario could have gone from bad to deadly in one second. I'd rather have my gun and risk a brandishing charge related to the draw process than wish I had pulled while I'm at the ER.
Final thought: I remember reading an old post by Guate where he stated his procedure is to move his shirt over his gun before he buckles his seatbelt, a good procedure that I have taken up. You just have to remember to cover it when you exit the car!
Glad your fine and it didn't escalate. Press charges for sure, some people need to realize they can't do whatever they feel is right.
When a gorilla move agressively towards a smaller framed person, it's a mere impulse that stands between threatening and deadly.
When a gorilla move agressively towards a smaller framed person, it's a mere impulse that stands between threatening and deadly.
Okay...
I always struggle with the concept of "brandishing" a weapon. Sure, if the OP here had her gun with her, and raised the weapon and pointed it at the BG, no question there. However, if one is simply holding the weapon at your side but in sight of the BG, not pointed at him(?), or what about a scenario where the weapon is laying on the front seat or console, not in the OP's grasp but in clear view of the BG? Is the main point that the weapon is or is not in your hand at the moment?
Just let him pass, and let the next person deal with the tool. It really isn't worth the troubles that could arouse. Too many crazies, avoid the ones that can be avoided.
Glad your okay, sucks you had to call the police and deal with that I'm sure you had better things to do.
Glad your okay, sucks you had to call the police and deal with that I'm sure you had better things to do.
general mills
Well-Known Member
I feel that someone is either knocking on my window (polite) or trying to break through my window. I cannot make the determination between beating on my window and trying to force entry.
general mills
Well-Known Member
and way to keep your cool girl1911
LRS 14:95.2. Carrying a firearm, or dangerous weapon, by a student or nonstudent on school property, at school-sponsored functions or firearm-free zone
(5) Any constitutionally protected activity which cannot be regulated by the state, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle.
You are allowed to bring a weapon on a school campus as long as it stays in your vehicle. Don't let going to your childrens school keep you from carrying. Just lock it up in your vehicle before you got out.
(5) Any constitutionally protected activity which cannot be regulated by the state, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle.
You are allowed to bring a weapon on a school campus as long as it stays in your vehicle. Don't let going to your childrens school keep you from carrying. Just lock it up in your vehicle before you got out.
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