Best Flashlight for Handgun Training.

[geauxshootin]

I use a NexTORCH light, that is rechargable both 110 and 12V. I have one in my truck that I use often. I charged the battery last April when I got it and have not had to charge it again yet.

 

[nickatnite]

+1 on the Nextorch light.


I also use one of these...

Stream Light Thunder Ranch Illumination System includes Streamlight TL-2 LED Tactical Light with lithium batteries, Streamlight Key-Mate LED light, innovative "Tiger Ring" deployment/shooting grip retention system, green filter and flip-up lens cover.

 

[Knave]

Honestly the brand for these things is almost insignificant in and of itself (almost).

I'm no expert on flashlight design and technology, and you can probably find out a whooooole lot more if you spend some time on candlepowerforums, but generally speaking in the handheld department I'd say you've got the approximately 1" diameter, approximately 5" length, tailcap operated lights which are standard for "tactical" handhelds for use with a pistol or that will fit the average long gun mounting system. There are a good many other variations of handhelds but we'll stick with that configuration since that seems to be what you're asking about.

I'd say you can break all the lights in this category down based on several factors with various trade-offs, many of which can drastically change the price range:

Off the top of my head you've got...

- rechargeable vs. disposable batteries
- LED vs. incandescent
- reflector/lens differences (generally, amount of throw vs. the amount of flood)
- catch-all build quality, parts quality, warranties, durability, etc etc.


Whether you would prefer an LED or incandescent depends alot on which type of light you prefer or find more useful for your application. I will say that lumens advertised for LED lights tends to be misleading if you compare it to the seemingly lower lumens of many incans. I'm no expert on it, but it has alot to do with the kind of visible light spectrum put out by LED's vs. ican, and several other factors that I don't have the scientific knowledge of to adequately explain (candlepowerforums if you're really interested). In a nutshell, just know that there is different between actual light output and advertised lumens, and a difference still between actual or advertised output and the "quality" of the output light.

Another thing to note for incans vs. LED's is that LED's generally wear out, break, and burn out extremely seldom compared to incans.

Anyway, if you look at the 1" diameter 5" length LED flashlights, you are generally looking at a few trade-offs in terms of generally higher output from some of the actual LED's at the cost of battery life, vs. others that have lower output but higher battery life, and still others that have even higher output LED's at low life but require more expensive (usually lithium) batteries, or longer life and lower output with more expensive batteries, and so on.

This may not seem like a big deal at first, but this is where your application can really determine which light is best for you. If you plan on using the light ALOT, and you get a disposable batteries light, and you get a max output light that lasts only 2 hours, 1 hour, or even less for a number of Surefire lights, you can start to spend alot on batteries (average probably $3 an hour for a light using two 123A's on two hour run time).

I generally prefer rechargeable lights for high output, lower runtime lights (2 hours or less), and only use disposables for higher runtime lights.


Honestly depending on the price range, you can do alot better buying a tactical handheld light from Black Bear (he posts as watchmaker on here, blackbearflashlights.com) or the Elektro Lumens every day carry light, compared to buying your mass produced stuff. Both Juan (Black Bear) and Wayne (Elektro Lumens) build lights by hand and give you a IMO superior finished product vs. any mass produced brand, including Surefire.


Edit - Just realized blackbear doesn't list the hand held light on the site, but if you email them they'll send you all the information you need. His light is hand held, rechargeable, extremely high output (as is the Elektro Lumens EDC light, http://elektrolumens.com/EDC-P7/EDC-MCE.html).

In my uses, the EDC outputs a bit higher (Wayne lists it as 700-900 lumens vs. Black Bear's light listed at 350), but runs about half as long (1 hour vs. Black Bear's 2 hours). The EDC also has a momentary on tailcap with screw-on on/off, and costs about $125, but does not include a battery or charger. Total will get to be about $175 once you buy a battery and charger.

Black Bear's is $135 shipped for the light, battery, and charger with a standard tailcap on/off switch. For $175 total he includes either a pressure switch or a momentary tailcap switch (light pressure to activate with heavier pressure to click it on and stay on, vs. a screw-on) and a lever rail mount.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

There is no reason at this point with modern technology to ever buy an incandescent bulb.

Unless someone here can ytell me an application I might not be aware of where an incandescent bulb would specifically out perform an LED, you simply cannot argue with the durability, low draw, and high output of modern LEDS.

If they made PMAG 30 rounder flashlights, I would be all over it.

Word is that Pelican is releasing a line of AA polymer high out put lights along with SUrefire to specifically compete in the AA market with lights like Fenix. If they can do that with the same level of quality they have in their CR123 lights, at a comperable price point, I think that will blow the market wide open.

A 50.00 AA light with a 175-250 lumen output in a lightweight LED version is where it is at.

Right now that is the Quark, Fenix, and 4Sevens lights.

 

[Knave]

There is no reason at this point with modern technology to ever buy an incandescent bulb.

Unless someone here can ytell me an application I might not be aware of where an incandescent bulb would specifically out perform an LED, you simply cannot argue with the durability, low draw, and high output of modern LEDS.

Generally I agree, until you get into the extremely high output lights like the Borealis, FireSword, Olight SR90, some of the Dereelights, etc. In these lights, IMO the type of light from an incan can be preferable depending on the use and user. Also, IMO an advantage of incans for the ultra high output lights is that the light's head tends to be alot smaller and less cumbersome, needing only space for one bulb instead of multiple large LED dies.

 

[Knave]

I dunno really. The extra distance you get with them is the main benefit I think. In doors and at shorter ranges, the practical difference isn't so significant that it justifies spending two or three times the money IMO. But the difference in what you can see with the higher output EDC's at 50 yards and up can be useful.

The incandescent thing though, I would've said they were completely dead until seeing what the Black Bear lights can do. Juan isn't the only person to make incandescent MagLite conversions, but he makes a very high quality product. I haven't used any of the incans he makes other than the Borealis, but what the Borealis can do is pretty incredible, and compared to the ultra high output LED's, the Black Bear lights and the heads especially have a much more manageable size.

With the higher output LED EDC's, using one in a pitch black room vs. the $20 Coleman AAA LED light from WalMart, either way I'm still very much aware that I'm using a flash light, if you know what I mean. The Borealis will reflect enough light off of ceilings and walls to the point that it looks like the lights are on in the room. The ultra high output LED's can do it too, but I personally prefer the look of incandescent light for that use. The LED white light from lights like the Olight SR90 is hard for my eyes to adjust to in a small room and makes things look too washed out for me.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Indeed. But I'm thinking about up close; where an ecounter is more likely to take place.

Case in point... I bought a MagLite three D cell LED for an "around the house" utility light. That thing is so bright and intense, it will actually cause you to look away from a close object due to the reflected light being far too bright. Now, that puppy has throw for days, and lasts well over ten hours (at full brightness) on a set of alkalines. I would not hesitate to carry that light working the road. But for everyday putzing around indoors? Its just TOO bright.

Now consider your portable flamethrowers you have there. If you have it set to go to the highest setting when activated (I assume that's the case?), reflected light from a close target could cause YOU to blink.

Just something to think about...

As for incandescents... I don't doubt what you're saying. But with the incredible variety of quality, inexpensive LED lights out there today, you will have to SHOW me how a hot wire, of any sort, is equal to an LED... in OVERALL terms.

The original StreamLight SL-20 was a working cop's dream come true; I still have the one I purchased in 1978. But at twenty (and now almost forty) bucks a pop, I have put several hundred dollars, over and above the original purchase price, in lamp modules into that light. It was, and is, a great flashlight/billy club. But give it a knock when the switch is on, and its gonna blow that lamp; every time.

I know, the SL-20 is old technology. My point is, reflector technology has more or less negated the one advantage hot wires had over LEDs; cutting through ambient light.

.

That was pretty much my point more eloquently stated.

In all fairness, I did ask him for "any" use, but getting back on topic of defensive / handgun use, I find anything over 200 lumens is pushing it for the very reasons you listed. When I look at a defensive or EDC (which will be the same for me)flashlight, I am looking at for the following things pretty much in below order.

1. Ability to identify my target. This is where I think a lot of peole get sucked into the "If it is brighter, it must be better" logic, that I was guilty of for a while myself. All you NEED from a HG/Def light is the ability to clearly identify a threat within HG distance. We are talking 25 yards MAX. If you are looking at more distance than that, especially in a low-light enviroment, then you better have a rifle with a weapon mounted light. My PD20 allowed me to clearly identify photo targets out to 75 yards on a no moon night mounted to an AR platform. That is good enough for me since that is far outside the customary "defensive" envelope and even outside anything one would encounter in a LEO situation for 99.999% of incidents.

2. Less-lethal deterrent- I have ended more use of force encounters with a bright light to the eyes then I have with a gun to the head or a taser to the nutsac. Think roaches--criminals are pretty much the same. That is why I am a big proponent of pistol mounted lights, especially for LEO since they actually draw and cover potential threats the most. The PML allows one to utilze the LL option of the light with the DF option in hand and ready to go. Like anything else, training is the key. For my needs, with today's technology, anything between 150-200 lumens more than covers that. Like LSP stated, anything more, and you become a hinderance to yourself with reflective surfaces like car and business windows and building walls...those areas where LEO and CHP are most likely to be in an incident.

3. General purpose- Seeing **** I can't see well. IE--finding my keys when I drop them, searching a car, searching a house (with no threat)....longer run time. Again, LEDS rule in the run-time arena. WIth the technology of multiple output switches that include sometimes too many, but definitely choices of output, all of the above needs are met. I can search of look without burning out my batteries should I need a sudden burst for defensive purposes.

4. Size- I want something I can place in my pocket and forget about. I carry an LD10 in my pocket, one on my belt, and a Streamlight rechargeable on my belt. If my department would have allowed PML, I would have had either an X300 or TLR-1. ALong with this comes battery compatibility. AA's are cheap and plenti-ful. They can be had in rechargeable flavor and I have all kinds of stuff I can rob them from in a pinch.



My money is on the single cell, LED, AA pwered, multi-function light of the Fenix, Quark, or 4 Sevens variety. SUrefire, Pelican, and possibly streamlight are about to break ranks and get into the AA market with comperable price points. FOr those that are brand loyal, I think that will blow the market open.

Unless you bull-eye rabbits or go spelunking, the ultr-eye scorching lights are obviously special needs. There is absolutely nothing I have ever done that I have said I wish I had a stronger light when I was within that 15-200 lumens range. I have however, completely burnt my vision and had to not use light, because someone had a light that was too powerful----me.

 

[Knave]

Now consider your portable flamethrowers you have there. If you have it set to go to the highest setting when activated (I assume that's the case?), reflected light from a close target could cause YOU to blink.

Definitely, though I find that for me the light reflecting from an incan like the Borealis is easier on my eyes than light reflecting from an ultra intense LED (the 2000+ lumens and up lights lets say). Then again there are other factors at work there, the intensity of the center beam vs. the flood for instance.

In my anecdotal testing (i.e. blinding myself with my own lights), I find that the size of the beam can play a large role too. The Borealis I have has a light stipple reflector which gives it a fair bit of flood, but it still has a fairly large, intense beam as well. If I blind myself with it in doors, the blinding power doesn't feel a whole lot different from the blinding power of my $20 Coleman 90 lumens LED from WalMart in a practical sense. But the Coleman has a much more narrow beam. It has to be shined very directly into my line of sight to really blind me while the Borealis feels like it has more wiggle room from the beam being wider. It also maintains blinding power at a much further distance due to the higher output.

On the other hand, a Borealis with the heavily stippled reflector is alot of flood with alot less beam. It probably doesn't blind as well as a Borealis with a completely smooth reflector, but it will supposedly light up a backyard. The smooth reflector is like a hand held spot light, though I'd say it gives up some utility for in door use and low range outdoor use, as well as raises the risk of accidentally blinding yourself by reflecting the super intense beam off of something.

For the ultra high output LED's, I personally couldn't use a light like the Olight SR90 in doors due to the intensity of the beam (1000 meter throw distance). Accidentally reflecting the beam and blinding yourself is a real concern IMO. But a light like the FireSword, which has an ultra high output but it's mostly flood with a pretty low center beam intensity, creates much less cause for concern in that respect IMO.

As for incandescents... I don't doubt what you're saying. But with the incredible variety of quality, inexpensive LED lights out there today, you will have to SHOW me how a hot wire, of any sort, is equal to an LED... in OVERALL terms.

Really the only incan I would make a case for at all would be the Borealis (and I guess by extension the other Black Bear lights, though I haven't used the others).

In overall terms, the benefits of a Borealis or other Black Bear lights compared to an LED of equivalent quality and output would be the form factor and interchangeability of using a generic MagLite body. The only real downside, IMO, is the bulb life vs. the LED's lifespan. So the bulb lifespan is an added cost, but the bulb being more fragile is probably a wash for the Borealis I think, because although the bulb might break due to being more fragile, the bulb is $10. If or when the LED's break on the comparable output and comparable price LED flashlights, replacement parts are significantly more expensive.

For the lower intensity lights in a given form factor (the 1" diameter 4-6" length lights for instance) I don't think there are any incans out there that matches a comparable LED.

Edit:

Just to reiterate my initial point about brand being almost meaningless...

If you shop around enough, you'll see that all the LED lights from different brands essentially start hitting the same plateaus. For instance, Fenix makes a light very similar to Black Bear's hand held that uses either two 123A's or one rechargeable 18650 battery, priced around $85. Once you buy a charger and battery you start hitting the $135 mark, which is where Black Bear's is priced for that setup. I say that brand is almost meaningless because while the end product may be extremely similar, the differences basically come down to warranties vs. hand crafted, minor variations in look or feel, dimensions and parts, and so on. When more brands start getting into the two AA setup (I think actually Dorcy makes one too right now, a few other less known one too), you'll start seeing a plateau there where all the lights are clones of each other, which continues until newer, better LED's are created, then all the brands jump on that newer LED.