Cop found guilty of felonious assault w/ a firearm during traffic stop

[Nolacopusmc]

That's why I stated immediate and potential - there's a difference. .

So let me ask you this...when speaking in terms of use of deadly force, is there a difference between immediate threat and imminent threat?

 

[radney]

So let me ask you this...when speaking in terms of use of deadly force, is there a difference between immediate threat and imminent threat?

Same thing - its a confirmed threat to your safety whereas potential is what you stated as the unknown. Just different terminology.

 

[Bayoupiper]

Same thing - its a confirmed threat to your safety whereas potential is what you stated as the unknown. Just different terminology.

A lot of cops are dead because of unconfirmed threats.




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[Nolacopusmc]

Same thing - its a confirmed threat to your safety whereas potential is what you stated as the unknown. Just different terminology.

You might want to look that up. Failure to recognize the difference could land you in prison...if you live that long given your stated perceptions of "threat."

Also, could you explain your difference between a confirmed and potential threat?

 

[radney]

A lot of cops are dead because of unconfirmed threats.




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Sure, but you can't shoot someone because you don't know what they're up to (fortunately or unfortunately depending on how you look at it).

 

[radney]

You might want to look that up. Failure to recognize the difference could land you in prison...if you live that long given your stated perceptions of "threat."

Also, could you explain your difference between a confirmed and potential threat?

I'll look for you when I get there!

I never defined my perception of a threat - ad hominem arguments are typically for the less than educated you know?

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I'll look for you when I get there!

I never defined my perception of a threat - ad hominem arguments are typically for the less than educated you know?

Well maybe instead of throwing your yet to be vetted opinion around, perhaps you could enlighten us to how you arrive at them.

Could you simply explain how you personally differentiate from a potential threat and a confirmed threat since that appears to be the crux of your argument as to why this was a bad shoot?

 

[radney]

Its always subjective to a degree, but I can't see anything in that video that would make me fire my weapon (which I think any reasonable person would agree with). I would absolutely be drawn, no argument with that, but nothing in that video warrants a shot.

Playing cop in Hindu Kush helped a lot for me - a little more dangerous I think but the same rules pretty much apply.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Its always subjective to a degree, but I can't see anything in that video that would make me fire my weapon (which I think any reasonable person would agree with). I would absolutely be drawn, no argument with that, but nothing in that video warrants a shot.

Playing cop in Hindu Kush helped a lot for me - a little more dangerous I think but the same rules pretty much apply.

I agree it is similar, but the ultimate accountability overseas versus US law is wholly different. Furthermore, the average LEO does not have heavy guns, Blackhawks, mortars, snipers, grenades, and rifle armor to help him.

I agree that it was a bad shoot, but you still have yet to define for us what you consider to be the "line in the sand" if you will on what moves a threat from potential to confirmed as you put it.

Thanks.

 

[W1nds0rF0x]

You might want to look that up. Failure to recognize the difference could land you in prison...if you live that long given your stated perceptions of "threat."

Also, could you explain your difference between a confirmed and potential threat?

Semantics by someone who needs to use them while teaching a class. The fact remains that in the positions seen in that video and with the COP having his weapon drawn, there is no way that guy could have pulled a gun from a pocket twisted around and shot at him, let alone make a good shot before he (the COP) could have fired. He had absolutely no justification in shooting that kid in the back without seeing a gun.

I'd really like to know what you think it is in Radney's #2 post that in your opinion is COP bashing.

 

[mslawn]

I just watched the video. Poor guys life ruined. It is hard for me to imagine being paralyzed. Mistake or not, the officer is an incompetent moron. There are idiots working in any and all occupations, he was just one of them. Now he will pay with jail time and lawsuits...

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Semantics by someone who needs to use them while teaching a class. The fact remains that in the positions seen in that video and with the COP having his weapon drawn, there is no way that guy could have pulled a gun from a pocket twisted around and shot at him, let alone make a good shot before he (the COP) could have fired. He had absolutely no justification in shooting that kid in the back without seeing a gun.

I'd really like to know what you think it is in Radney's #2 post that in your opinion is COP bashing.

Try to pay a little more attention there foxy...the semantics were his words, not mine. Also,on further reading you will notice that I am not referring specifically to the actions in the video.

Maybe cop bashing was not the right words for me to use, but his word choice and his jumping to conclusions not knowing anything else but what is seen in those few seconds of video is atypical of the anti-cop breed.

Since you didn't catch it, let me help.

I AGREE IT WAS A BAD SHOOT.


However, I would like Radney to explain at what point in a lethal force encounter an individual or his.her actions turn from potential to confirmed.

 

[my-rifle]

I just watched the video. Poor guys life ruined. It is hard for me to imagine being paralyzed. Mistake or not, the officer is an incompetent moron. There are idiots working in any and all occupations, he was just one of them. Now he will pay with jail time and lawsuits...

I'm not sure I agree that the cop was a moron. In my line of work, when I make a mistake I pay for it with lost time fixing the mistake or possible money spent to fix it. In a cop's line of work, a mistake lands him in jail - or dead.

Nolacop and I have had our differences, but I agree with him on this.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I'm not sure I agree that the cop was a moron. In my line of work, when I make a mistake I pay for it with lost time fixing the mistake or possible money spent to fix it. In a cop's line of work, a mistake lands him in jail - or dead.

Nolacop and I have had our differences, but I agree with him on this.

Plus, we still do not know if it was a bad conscious decision to shoot or an unintentional (negligent) discharge under stress.

Not that makes it any better, but it does change the motives for the shooting.

 

[my-rifle]

True.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Plus, we still do not know if it was a bad conscious decision to shoot or an unintentional (negligent) discharge under stress.

Not that makes it any better, but it does change the motives for the shooting.

I agree. However, at that point my problem with it lies in the fact that IF it was a negligent, unintentional shot the officer didn't own up to it. They tried to lie and cover it up, hoping to convince a jury that he had just cause to pull the trigger. That's some shady ****.

 

[Roadhazzard]

I have a sincere question. Since in your words...

I AGREE IT WAS A BAD SHOOT.

Then why all the dancing around on the head of a pin?

For what it's worth, I agree with your assessment of the righteousness of the shoot. Rarely have I seen anything with less ambiguity than that video. For me, the only surprise is that the charges weren't more serious.

Therefore, I am genuinely confused because one thing I didn't see in the video is anything to argue about.


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[Nolacopusmc]

I agree. However, at that point my problem with it lies in the fact that IF it was a negligent, unintentional shot the officer didn't own up to it. They tried to lie and cover it up, hoping to convince a jury that he had just cause to pull the trigger. That's some shady ****.

I agree

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I have a sincere question. Since in your words...




Then why all the dancing around on the head of a pin?

For what it's worth, I agree with your assessment of the righteousness of the shoot. Rarely have I seen anything with less ambiguity than that video. For me, the only surprise is that the charges weren't more serious.

Therefore, I am genuinely confused because one thing I didn't see in the video is anything to argue about.


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How am I dancing?

i asked someone to explain their opinion of a legal concept they brought into the conversation.

 

[Roadhazzard]

How am I dancing?

For you to intimate you don't understand what I mean rings hollow upon my ears. But, because the possibility exists that you are sincere, here are some examples of what I was referencing when I wrote "dancing on the head of a pin."

Video does not lie, but it is a snapshot in time and obviously does not tell the whole story, though it is apparent here that is not what you are concerned with.

This particular video is, as I mentioned earlier, astonishingly unambiguous to anyone who views it without prejudice. And while it may not tell the whole story, the part of the story it does tell is presented in heartbreaking clarity. And that part is sufficient for judgment as to the righteousness of the officers actions. Besides, nothing short of the voice of God ever tells the whole story, so that argument doesn't convince.

So let me ask you this...when speaking in terms of use of deadly force, is there a difference between immediate threat and imminent threat?

I might add here that imminent threat is a new term introduced by yourself at this juncture in the conversation. It is right along in here that your arguments begin to take on a casuistic flavor. This impression only becomes stronger in subsequent posts.

Also, could you explain your difference between a confirmed and potential threat?

Please.

Well maybe instead of throwing your yet to be vetted opinion around, perhaps you could enlighten us to how you arrive at them.


Could you simply explain how you personally differentiate from a potential threat and a confirmed threat since that appears to be the crux of your argument as to why this was a bad shoot?

This is my humble attempt to enlighten as to how I arrived at my opinion. As for the second sentence, again, please. Willful misunderstanding does not become one of your stature. I find myself in the unexpected position of being embarrassed for you.

I agree that it was a bad shoot, but you still have yet to define for us what you consider to be the "line in the sand" if you will on what moves a threat from potential to confirmed as you put it.

By this point I am so tired of the casuistic nature of your arguments I just want to point out again that the video is unambiguous and that wherever the line may be that officer didn't see anyone cross it.

Thank you for the opportunity to express my feelings and thoughts on this issue. Catharsis is a good thing.


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