Cop sent back to training after confrontation

[lsu fan]

He does need training, in proper and EFECTIVE use of force tactics. That tussle lasted about 2 mins longer than it had to. He exposed himself and his weapon way to much and could have gotten himself killed.

+1

 

[Bayoupiper]

That's is a scary assed situation!

She was actively resisting, but she wasn't aggressively resisting.

Her screaming and going nuts is what attracted the crowd.

Me personally?
I would have used what it took to get her cuffed and out of the area fast.

In this situation, that officer had no way of knowing friend from foe and I think went out of his way to be overly gentle because of that.

Also think the reason he didn't use more force was that he shocked himself with that punch and I could just see one or more of the onlookers jumping in if he took it up another notch.

Same thing if someone had jumped in to help.
The crowd might would have misunderstood and gone off on them.

This is what every day is like for a modern day street cop.
People yelling all kinds of crap and trying to escalate the situation by shouting encouragements to the suspect, all the while filming it with i-phones and video cameras.

And this was all over a jaywalker.

What do you think would have happened had this been a more violent crime?


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[rooster]

Looked like the only 1/2 intelligent person out there was the bystander in the blue shirt pulling the girl off of the officer. I would say the LEO was well below his allowed use of force in that situation.

Yeah. That girl in the pink was asking for it. I would have done much worse if I was in his situation. In collage I was a bouncer at a local night club and I hated girl fights. They would scratch and bite and pull hair. Never hit any of them but I slammed a few heads into walls and tables. In a situation like that a women can kill you just like a man can.

 

[rooster]

That's is a scary assed situation!

She was actively resisting, but she wasn't aggressively resisting.

Her screaming and going nuts is what attracted the crowd.

Me personally?
I would have used what it took to get her cuffed and out of the area fast.

In this situation, that officer had no way of knowing friend from foe and I think went out of his way to be overly gentle because of that.

Also think the reason he didn't use more force was that he shocked himself with that punch and I could just see one or more of the onlookers jumping in if he took it up another notch.

Same thing if someone had jumped in to help.
The crowd might would have misunderstood and gone off on them.

This is what every day is like for a modern day street cop.
People yelling all kinds of crap and trying to escalate the situation by shouting encouragements to the suspect, all the while filming it with i-phones and video cameras.

And this was all over a jaywalker.

What do you think would have happened had this been a more violent crime?


.

Maybe less silly laws like jaywalking would help.

 

[Bayoupiper]

Maybe less silly laws like jaywalking would help.

Yeah that's funny, but you do realize that the violation really doesn't matter here.





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[charliepapa]

You could hand the cop the pepper spray and allow him to use it.

If you're answering the question I posed, are you a LEO and if not, how do you know this would be it? Are you saying that a non-LEO could not jump in and help defend the officer?

I'd say with a crowd like that, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that you feared for the safety of the officer, and non-lethal force was appropriate. But, then again, that's why I asked the question...

 

[CloudStrife]

I can see the point of helping the cop. But we are just ordinary citizens. We are not trained to handle these type of situations. You step in with sorts of good intentions and you just exposed yourself to all sorts of potential lawsuits. Additionally you might make things worse and the cop may think you are part of the problem. Then you end up doing the flop and twitch on the ground.

If you're answering the question I posed, are you a LEO and if not, how do you know this would be it? Are you saying that a non-LEO could not jump in and help defend the officer?

I'd say with a crowd like that, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that you feared for the safety of the officer, and non-lethal force was appropriate. But, then again, that's why I asked the question...

I was responding to flamatrix. If you're worried about a lawsuit for helping (not defending), I think you'd be safer just handing him the pepper spray rather than using it yourself. Just a suggestion. But you can be sued for anything...

 

[Kraut]

perfect situation for the still-uninvented taserbomb.....

No taser bomb (yet), but they do have a taser claymore mine. Check their website.

Also think the reason he didn't use more force was that he shocked himself with that punch and I could just see one or more of the onlookers jumping in if he took it up another notch.

Unfortunately, from the very start of this, his having to worry about public reaction was likely the reason it went so bad, well before he punched the second knucklehead. Controlling a resisting subject against or over the hood of a car, although a long-used practice that happens almost instinctually for some reason when you are contacting someone near your patrol unit, is not the ideal response. It does not give sufficient leverage against their upper body. She should have been taken to the ground quickly, but why wasn't she? Most likely because this officer, given the atmosphere in his city over the previous complaint referenced as well as all the other common complaints from shortsighted members of the public, from the get go was probably wanting in the back of his mind to avoid the complaint more than he was willing to make the appropriate escalation to bring the first subject under control. The problem is that once he's been ineffectually dancing around with the first one and then suddenly punches the second, the perception of the citizens present makes a more sudden jump, especially when those citizens are of a like mind with the resisting subject and think that such reaction to lawful and appropriate authority (police, parents, teachers, whatever) is acceptable. Their first reaction, as someone earlier pointed out, was not to help the officer but to immediately begin haranguing him and questioning his actions.

The above contains a lot of my opinion, after the fact, looking at a video. Who knows, he might have been right to try to stay on his feet given the gathering crowd. If he had tried to take her to the ground, that could have limited mobility and exposed him to further attack and put him at a disadvantage in defending himself.

I think this incident, unfortunately, can have nothing but a negative effect on public perception. When he's spinning his wheels with the first idiot, probably trying to avoid looking like a vicious brute to avoid complaint or problems with the crowd, he's seen as an incompetent who doesn't know what to do or how to do it. When the second subject gets involved and he uses acceptable force to level the odds, he's seen as a vicious brute. The department is seen as either employing brutes or employing incompetents.

 

[CloudStrife]

TASER Shockwave
http://www.taser.com/products/law/Pages/ShockwaveLE.aspx

 

[oleheat]

No taser bomb (yet), but they do have a taser claymore mine. Check their website.

Thanks for the info- that is really something! The Taser Shockwave!

 

[charliepapa]

I was responding to flamatrix. If you're worried about a lawsuit for helping (not defending), I think you'd be safer just handing him the pepper spray rather than using it yourself. Just a suggestion. But you can be sued for anything...

I'm not. I was more interested as to whether or not it would be criminal or considered rendering assistance.

 

[oleheat]

TASER Shockwave
http://www.taser.com/products/law/Pages/ShockwaveLE.aspx

That could've definitely got some amber lamps rolling their way. A new tool for the modern-day "Hail Mary" call, I reckon.....

 

[Bayoupiper]

No taser bomb (yet), but they do have a taser claymore mine. Check their website.

Unfortunately, from the very start of this, his having to worry about public reaction was likely the reason it went so bad, well before he punched the second knucklehead. Controlling a resisting subject against or over the hood of a car, although a long-used practice that happens almost instinctually for some reason when you are contacting someone near your patrol unit, is not the ideal response. It does not give sufficient leverage against their upper body. She should have been taken to the ground quickly, but why wasn't she? Most likely because this officer, given the atmosphere in his city over the previous complaint referenced as well as all the other common complaints from shortsighted members of the public, from the get go was probably wanting in the back of his mind to avoid the complaint more than he was willing to make the appropriate escalation to bring the first subject under control. The problem is that once he's been ineffectually dancing around with the first one and then suddenly punches the second, the perception of the citizens present makes a more sudden jump, especially when those citizens are of a like mind with the resisting subject and think that such reaction to lawful and appropriate authority (police, parents, teachers, whatever) is acceptable. Their first reaction, as someone earlier pointed out, was not to help the officer but to immediately begin haranguing him and questioning his actions.

The above contains a lot of my opinion, after the fact, looking at a video. Who knows, he might have been right to try to stay on his feet given the gathering crowd. If he had tried to take her to the ground, that could have limited mobility and exposed him to further attack and put him at a disadvantage in defending himself.

I think this incident, unfortunately, can have nothing but a negative effect on public perception. When he's spinning his wheels with the first idiot, probably trying to avoid looking like a vicious brute to avoid complaint or problems with the crowd, he's seen as an incompetent who doesn't know what to do or how to do it. When the second subject gets involved and he uses acceptable force to level the odds, he's seen as a vicious brute. The department is seen as either employing brutes or employing incompetents.

I'm not sure taking a suspect to the ground in that situation would have been wise.

Yeah, he was pretty much screwed from the get go once she went nuts on him.

But this is a good vid for some of the people on here to see what cops put up with.

And I've added it to my collection for training.



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[VeedUp]

Should have taken her to the ground immediately

 

[ofcmetz]

Sheesh, I wish I could of been there to help him out. Its a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. True, my first instict would have been to bring her to the ground, pretty hard at that. But he was trying not to appear to harsh with the croud around.

To all the citizens. If you see a cop in a situation like that. two or three on one. Feel free to grab on of the bitches and pull em off his back, but as soon as the backup arrives just step back. You could decide then whether to say around at this point and have your name documented or to leave and remain anonymous.

 

[whbonney26]

That was a perfect opportunity for pepperspray or a Taser.

+ 1 they were acting like animals. Girls like that can hurt you so maybe more force earlier would have put out the fire. Taser would have calmed them down fast.

 

[RyanB]

He definitely was not in the wrong, he should have pointed the taser at her, and if she didn't quit, well, he could've made her quit.

+1 they were acting like animals.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Should have taken her to the ground immediately

wRONG, YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT TO GO TO THE GROUND WITH THAT MANY PEOPLE AROUND. hE SHOULD HAVE BACKED UP AND DEPLOYED oc, TASER OR BATON.

 

[ofcmetz]

wRONG, YOU DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT TO GO TO THE GROUND WITH THAT MANY PEOPLE AROUND. hE SHOULD HAVE BACKED UP AND DEPLOYED oc, TASER OR BATON.

After watching it again. I agree.

 

[radney]

Wow, I'm surprised he didn't taser her right when she resisted with her friends around like that. The cop was totally justified.