Do you think private gun sales should go through a FFL?

[dwhaley929]

You think it's a good idea that instead of getting a signed Bill of Sale from the buyer you would feel comfortable selling a firearm to a total stranger and once you have the $$ in hand, you just let them walk away without any info on who they are? Unless I misunderstood your question in which case I apologize.

Yep.

 

[dwhaley929]

A bill of sale is meaningless unless it's signed in the presence of an official of some sort, like a notary or justice of the peace or santa claus.

It is only necessary to notarize the bill of sale, invoice, or title.
However, if a trade vehicle is listed on the bill of sale, it must be notarized.

A confusing statement if there ever was one. I don't know if someone already brought up this point. Didn't have time to read all the pages.

 

[AK shooter]

No!

 

[Dishonored]

I have never had an issue with doing a bill of sale for a seller/buyer if they wanted one. I however will not list my address on one and you definitely are not going to get a picture of my ID. You may ask to see it in person and I will show you it is a LA license. That’s about it though.

That’s for my protection and privacy.

 

[thperez1972]

I have never had an issue with doing a bill of sale for a seller/buyer if they wanted one. I however will not list my address on one and you definitely are not going to get a picture of my ID. You may ask to see it in person and I will show you it is a LA license. That’s about it though.

That’s for my protection and privacy.

You can put a sticker over the address and write "not needed" on the sticker. I wouldn't sell a firearm to someone I don't know without their name and dl/id number on the bill of sale. I will look at the id to make sure you're a resident of La. You can write the dl number down and I'll verify that it's right. My dl number will be on the bill of sale. A bill of sale is not required under Louisiana law. But Louisiana law also doesn't require me to sell something just because someone else wants it.

With regard to a notary requirement, agreements in Louisiana do not always require the use of a notary.

Civi Procedure Art. 1836. Act under private signature duly acknowledged

An act under private signature is regarded prima facie as the true and genuine act of a party executing it when his signature has been acknowledged, and the act shall be admitted in evidence without further proof.

An act under private signature may be acknowledged by a party to that act by recognizing the signature as his own before a court, or before a notary public, or other officer authorized to perform that function, in the presence of two witnesses. An act under private signature may be acknowledged also in any other manner authorized by law.

Nevertheless, an act under private signature, though acknowledged, cannot substitute for an authentic act when the law prescribes such an act.

 

[hotbiggun]

I have never had an issue with doing a bill of sale for a seller/buyer if they wanted one. I however will not list my address on one and you definitely are not going to get a picture of my ID. You may ask to see it in person and I will show you it is a LA license. That’s about it though.

That’s for my protection and privacy.

I agree

 

[Dishonored]

You can put a sticker over the address and write "not needed" on the sticker. I wouldn't sell a firearm to someone I don't know without their name and dl/id number on the bill of sale. I will look at the id to make sure you're a resident of La. You can write the dl number down and I'll verify that it's right. My dl number will be on the bill of sale. A bill of sale is not required under Louisiana law. But Louisiana law also doesn't require me to sell something just because someone else wants it.

With regard to a notary requirement, agreements in Louisiana do not always require the use of a notary.

I’ll put my DL# on the BOS. I did that recently. The guy at first wanted my address or a copy of my DL. I explained that I wasn’t going to do that. He understood and the deal went through no issues. I verified my name, my state and recorded my DL#.

I’m just out on a picture (you can use ID’s to verify identity online) and my address is a privacy matter, we are indeed still strangers to one another.

 

[AustinBR]

You can put a sticker over the address and write "not needed" on the sticker. I wouldn't sell a firearm to someone I don't know without their name and dl/id number on the bill of sale. I will look at the id to make sure you're a resident of La. You can write the dl number down and I'll verify that it's right. My dl number will be on the bill of sale. A bill of sale is not required under Louisiana law. But Louisiana law also doesn't require me to sell something just because someone else wants it.

With regard to a notary requirement, agreements in Louisiana do not always require the use of a notary.

I am in this boat as well. I prefer to have a bill of sale, but I totally respect folks' right to refuse.

I generally don't buy used firearms from people as most of the time it's just not worth whatever the savings is vs just buying it new.

I don't think we should have a law that there should be a FFL or a BoS, but folks should definitely be able to use both if they think it's necessary.

I also wouldn't be opposed to police being able to run the serial number for you before buying an item to prove it wasn't previously stolen. I'm not aware of any departments offering this service, though.

 

[Dishonored]

I am in this boat as well. I prefer to have a bill of sale, but I totally respect folks' right to refuse.

I generally don't buy used firearms from people as most of the time it's just not worth whatever the savings is vs just buying it new.

I don't think we should have a law that there should be a FFL or a BoS, but folks should definitely be able to use both if they think it's necessary.

I also wouldn't be opposed to police being able to run the serial number for you before buying an item to prove it wasn't previously stolen. I'm not aware of any departments offering this service, though.

Long time ago. I called APSO and they agreed to run a serial for me. The deal ended up not working out, so I can’t say for 100%… but they said they would.

 

[Magdump]

It protects the seller in case things ever go sideways.

While you might be able to avoid any criminal prosecution a potential civil case is all together different. Imagine you sold one of the mass killers a firearm in a private sale. You would face financial ruin even if you won the civil suits. Even going through an FFL might not help you but it's the best you can do.

Unfortunately logic has little place in our legal system on either the criminal or civil side.

Imagine you bought a gun from someone in a private sale. Had no record of it. Then you sold it to another person later on, again, making no record of it…THEN you wound up in the legal predicament you’ve described. How will anyone sue you with all that plausible deniability at your disposal?

 

[Magdump]

As a general and personal rule of thumb, I’ll gladly sign a BOS for a buyer or seller, but I won’t provide one. I’ll offer my DL for proof of state residency and provide the number for BOS. Unless I was under legal obligation because of out of state buyer or seller and really wanted to see the deal through, I would decline involving a FFL. Any other reason that would demand going through a FFL for a private sale would just be a reason for me to avoid the deal altogether. I have never used a FFL for a private sale/purchase of a firearm. I have refused to complete an overkill 5 page bill of sale, refused to go through a FFL free of charge when selling a gun and walked away from a few gun sales and purchases for other personal reasons over the years.

I believe many people have become somewhat brainwashed by all the suggestion going on nowadays. I do not fear being prosecuted or sued for acting in accordance with the law. I believe the more people try to create the illusion that we are legally obligated to jump through these hoops for private sales, the more possible it is that we will eventually see these laws come into existence. If there is little to no opposition to something, it will usually propagate.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

 

[thperez1972]

As a general and personal rule of thumb, I’ll gladly sign a BOS for a buyer or seller, but I won’t provide one. I’ll offer my DL for proof of state residency and provide the number for BOS. Unless I was under legal obligation because of out of state buyer or seller and really wanted to see the deal through, I would decline involving a FFL. Any other reason that would demand going through a FFL for a private sale would just be a reason for me to avoid the deal altogether. I have never used a FFL for a private sale/purchase of a firearm. I have refused to complete an overkill 5 page bill of sale, refused to go through a FFL free of charge when selling a gun and walked away from a few gun sales and purchases for other personal reasons over the years.

I believe many people have become somewhat brainwashed by all the suggestion going on nowadays. I do not fear being prosecuted or sued for acting in accordance with the law. I believe the more people try to create the illusion that we are legally obligated to jump through these hoops for private sales, the more possible it is that we will eventually see these laws come into existence. If there is little to no opposition to something, it will usually propagate.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

There is no legal obligation to have a bos for a private transfer. I do not believe there should be and I am opposed to any attempts to add any requirements for a private transfer.

I can think of a reason for both the buyer and seller wanting a bos for a private transfer.
seller - a gun is recovered at a crime scene at some point after the sale.
buyer - the police have occasion to run a serial number after the sale and the gun had been reported stolen.

Having "no knowledge that the firearm was the subject of any form of misappropriation" is a legal defense. A bos would go a long way in establishing that defense. And before anyone mentions anything about notaries and such, "an act under private signature is regarded prima facie as the true and genuine act of a party executing it when his signature has been acknowledged, and the act shall be admitted in evidence without further proof."

So having a bos could help you in certain situations. The likelihood of finding yourself in that situation is small but it does exist. I cannot think of any harm, either legally or civilly, that can come from the buyer and seller having a bill of sale. From what I can tell, there is a small chance something positive could come from a bos and nothing negative that would come from a bos.

 

[jcbvh]

I ask because lots of ads here ask for more than the law requires. Why would anyone selling a firearm via private sale require documentation from the buyer? Is it just me or is that crazy?


Edit to ad: your used firearms are not worth more than new firearms.FFS

Damn Soros Libtards.

Guys dont feed the troll.

It (they/them) Joined 6 days ago.

You see this a-lot on the east coast gun forums.

Its easy to detect once you know what to look for.

The 3rd grade user names are one of their attributes along with a-lot of general non sensical posts in order to gain some sort of credibility

 

[340six]

And now for the number one answer.
I lost my Receipts and BOS in a flood.
I did i really did along with lots of other stuff in Katrnia.

 

[GunRelated]

Damn Soros Libtards.

Guys dont feed the troll.

It (they/them) Joined 6 days ago.

You see this a-lot on the east coast gun forums.

Its easy to detect once you know what to look for.

The 3rd grade user names are one of their attributes along with a-lot of general non sensical posts in order to gain some sort of credibility

I mean, the point is valid, and legal. There is good reason that private sales require no legal documentation.

 

[Fordfella]

I mean, the point is valid, and legal. There is good reason that private sales require no legal documentation.

Someone needs to inform Lowes of this. They wanted to scan my DL to buy drill bits yesterday!!! I walked out empty handed!

 

[WhereIsIt?]

When I sold all my Ar-15's I made sure to get home and work address, went through an ffl and got references. I was not taking any chances on selling them to someone who might have very bad intentions.

 

[DBMJR1]

When I sold all my Ar-15's I made sure to get home and work address, went through an ffl and got references. I was not taking any chances on selling them to someone who might have very bad intentions.

Why take the chance of selling them. You should have just crushed them, or torch cut them.

Think of the children.

 

[WhereIsIt?]

Why take the chance of selling them. You should have just crushed them, or torch cut them.

Because I'm not some hippy that goes around destroying stuff that I don't agree with. Just because I don't care for something doesn't mean everyone else has to agree with me.

 

[jcm629]

One of the many reasons I'm glad to no longer be in California: whenever I wanted to buy private party, I had to meet the seller at the FFL, pay $47.19 to the state, do my background check, show a firearm safety certificate, then the FFL held the firearm for a 10-day waiting period, then I could go back and get it. Doesn't matter if it's a single shot, rimfire, it's your 200th gun, whatever-- 10 day waiting period, no exceptions, unless you're a cop.