Home Defense Guns

[SpeedRacer]

I don't believe there is much of a diffrence in lethality vis a vis 16" vs. 10.3".

Especially at home defense distances.

 

[doc ace]

Because I am not enamored with the Tavor or any of the modern bullpups. They lack the track record or reliability I am looking for, they can't be fired from the support side without mechanical modification, the manual of arms is weird, and with the availability of JHPs and ammo like the 77gr SMK and TMK I don't believe there is much of a diffrence in lethality vis a vis 16" vs. 10.3".

Nate, had an old SGM who enjoyed clearing rooms with his M16 over the M4 carbine, something about more barrel twists or something with the bullet translated into a little more punch? I just thought he was a bit paranoid from being post Vietnam privates back at Sand Hill...

Thoughts?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I think that's hot garbage. **** like that gets repeated over and over enough times that it becomes "truth". Ask any of the resident Devil Dogs how they felt about clearing rooms with their M16a4 Combat Muskets. Twist rate becomes important when selecting ammo type outside of that it's an unimportant factor.

 

[doc ace]

lol I figured. I loved the M4 carbine, never did buy into his bs most times.

 

[MOTOR51]

Most 5.56/.223 ammo, particularly JHP stuff has less residual penetration through interior walls than 9mm Ball. By design the projectiles are low mass/high velocity they become unstable in barriers and fragment. Drywall is a particularly difficult medium for them. There will be some secondary frag but im far less concerned about than I am with buck shot or slugs and I don't consider pistol ammo to be less of a risk nor do I find it to be sufficiently lethal.

It's amazing how many people don't know this. I have this argument all the time at work.


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[Vanilla Gorilla]

It's a symptom of what happens when people who don't know things, repeat things.

 

[Neil09]

Any cons to going with a lower grain JHP? Wouldn't that make it less likely to penetrate multiple walls? My twist rate is 1:9 on my only rifle now, i'm assuming even at short distances (in home), it'd be better to stay with a lower grain?

 

[noob]

You are comparing the 556 round to 9mm ball ammo, but most if not all of us use a decent jhp in our sd guns. I know I have multiple mags of federal hst loaded for each pistol hanging next to my safe.

 

[petingrass]

Is there an inexpensive 223 commercial HP that you would recommend? I feel like i need to swap 55 grain FMJ for something else if I'm going to depend on the rifle but I want to be able to afford to run some through the gun to test it.

 

[323MAR]

My Glock 20 or 21. 15 rounds of 10mm or 13 rounds of .45 ACP.

Yes sir, my Glock 20 is always on call with Winchester Silvertips!

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Any cons to going with a lower grain JHP? Wouldn't that make it less likely to penetrate multiple walls? My twist rate is 1:9 on my only rifle now, i'm assuming even at short distances (in home), it'd be better to stay with a lower grain?

Maybe but one of the special things about the 77gr SMK is great terminal effect with poor barrier performance. As a general rule I want the heaviest bullet possible.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

You are comparing the 556 round to 9mm ball ammo, but most if not all of us use a decent jhp in our sd guns. I know I have multiple mags of federal hst loaded for each pistol hanging next to my safe.

Most modern JHPs for pistols, including the HST, were designed for best possible performance through intermediate barriers. Interior walls, auto glass, denim etc. So in short it doesn't change my calculus.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Is there an inexpensive 223 commercial HP that you would recommend? I feel like i need to swap 55 grain FMJ for something else if I'm going to depend on the rifle but I want to be able to afford to run some through the gun to test it.

Give me a price range so I can be specific. I would say that I have found quality 55gr XM193 to be lethal and reliable. If that's what I could afford inwoudnt have reservations about using it.

 

[petingrass]

Xm193 is what I use. If it does the job I would bea happy to stick with it. Anything else would need to come in around the same price. Thanks Nilla.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Xm193 is what I use. If it does the job I would bea happy to stick with it. Anything else would need to come in around the same price. Thanks Nilla.

I don't have any personal experience but I've heard good things about the CBC 77gr OTM MK262 clone. A little spendier than XM193, but about half the price of the Black Hills equivalent.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/cbc-5-56mm-nato-77gr-otm-hpbt-ammunition-50rds-cbc556c.html

Same concept, excellent on soft tissue but not so great barrier performance, which is ideal for home use.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Then no stick with what you have.

 

[cajun_64]

Good info and thanks for sharing your expertise in this manner.

Now I need to find a place that can train and old fat guy with bad knees on the M4!
Of course the time to take a class would help


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[Vanilla Gorilla]

I got the place and the course all you gotta make is the time.

 

[petingrass]

Advantage delivers to goods in their classes , so sign up already.

 

[Dave328]

What about 147gr at about 2800fps?