Home Defense Guns

[Vanilla Gorilla]

If serious about doing some tests soon I have a good bit of 1/2 and 5/8 sheet-rock you can have left over from my building. I'm in Loranger, hop skip and a jump from Robert.

I'll buy the 2x4s if someone wants to frame.

 

[jdavid1]

Heck I could frame it up. I'd like to compare shotgun vs 5.56 vs .300blk.

 

[noob]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls/

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-1-the-original-box-o-truth/

Here's a couple links to shotgun, rifle, and pistol tests on dry wall I just came across...

 

[Emperor]

I was recently asked to contribute To a Round Table Discussion in Ballistic Magazine. The topic was Home Defense Weapons, what I chose , and why. I thought i would share my thoughts here:

Home Defense Weapon of Choice: Daniel Defense Mk18

Why? The Mk18 gives me a proven,super reliable platform capable of defeating any threat that I am likely to encounter in my home. There are a variety of excellent ammo choices available that will defeat soft body armor without posing an over penetration risk to my family. My personal choice is the 77gr SMK loaded by Black Hills. I use the Mk18 extensively at work so having the common platform at home is a big plus.

Modification: On my home defense rifle I keep things pretty basic. I have added the Unity Tactical VTAC Micro Hub with fixed Iron Sight, Surefire M300B Scout Light, and a VTAC MkII Sling. I also use the excellent Giselle Super V Trigger. The Super V is reliable and effective, and since I also have one in my work rifle , it insures consistent platform performance.

Most folks that could afford this weapon probably don't need a home defense weapon as much as those that can't. Just assuming here, but I hope your roundtable discussion offered the vast majority of the population a more realistic alternative as far as practicality and economic reality goes?!?

 

[noob]

Most folks that could afford this weapon probably don't need a home defense weapon as much as those that can't. Just assuming here, but I hope your roundtable discussion offered the vast majority of the population a more realistic alternative as far as practicality and economic reality goes?!?

Though at 1500-1800 for the DD MK18 can be pricey to some. I think SBR's and/or AR pistols and even carbines are widely available for 1/2 the price.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Most folks that could afford this weapon probably don't need a home defense weapon as much as those that can't. Just assuming here, but I hope your roundtable discussion offered the vast majority of the population a more realistic alternative as far as practicality and economic reality goes?!?

I was asked what my choice was. This is my choice. Im a cop. I make a cop's salary and I have two kids at home. Life is about choices and priorities. This rifle cost less than smoking a pack a day. There is an option in everyone's price range, but that's not the question I was asked or the one I answered. If you want to discuss options let me know what your cost theshhold is and we can go from there.

 

[JCcypress]

I just helped a buddy build a Mk18, in 300 BLK, using DD parts for right at $1000. Of course, that doesn't include tax stamp and optic...

If that doesn't work, PSA has parts kits and 10.5" upper with FN barrels on sale all the time. At this moment, you could get into a "budget" SBR for around $650 + stamp, or pick up an upper for 400 bucks and mount it to the lower that I know most people already own. If you want to shave the ATF's $200 off, you could go the Sig brace route- not my personal choice, but it is what it is.

Finally, you could ditch the SBR idea and just pick up a 16" AR for pretty cheap these days- not much more than a Glock.

A lot of gun owners already have a bunch of crap guns that are just "range toys" that get shot once or twice a year. Instead of having multiple mediocre guns, why not invest in a single quality weapon?

 

[mike84z28]

My point not directed at VG is they can afford it if thats there priority and choice. You can't bring the debate (not my words) from an $1800 rifle to a stick. There are a lot of affordable choices in between. if you choose the $1800 rifle then adjust your lifestyle to afford it. Its attainable if you choose to own it. Now if your income dosnt allow it and you cannot adjust your lifestlye to afford it then their are many other firearm options that will suit the Right to self defense. But don't tell me you have a $150 cable tv bill with a Tv in every room or $200 a month cell phone bill, or a hobby and you can't adjust your lifestlye to afford something else.

 

[JCcypress]

My point not directed at VG is they can afford it if thats there priority and choice. You can't bring the debate (not my words) from an $1800 rifle to a stick. There are a lot of affordable choices in between. if you choose the $1800 rifle then adjust your lifestyle to afford it. Its attainable if you choose to own it. Now if your income dosnt allow it and you cannot adjust your lifestlye to afford it then their are many other firearm options that will suit the Right to self defense. But don't tell me you have a $150 cable tv bill with a Tv in every room or $200 a month cell phone bill, or a hobby and you can't adjust your lifestlye to afford something else.

^ This.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Well ok. Hopefully that concludes the nonsensical interlude. My offer stands if you need a budget self defense gun PM me and I'll be happy to give you some options.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Stupidity purged. Back to relevant intelligent discussion.

 

[ajridgedell]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls/

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-1-the-original-box-o-truth/

Here's a couple links to shotgun, rifle, and pistol tests on dry wall I just came across...

What I gather from their test is that if someone I don't want to shoot is within the possible trajectory of anything but birdshot, no matter how many walls, I'm not gunna shoot. whether it be 9mm or 5.56. I would lean towards a sbr with silencer for my prefered HD weapon, but for right now I am comfortable using a hundgun, 9mm and up. If someone was in a position where my wife or daughter was behind them, walls or no walls, I would have to try to position myself so that I felt there wouldn't be a risk of getting a two for one (to put it crude). Probably easier said than done, lot to think about in a situation like that, but personally I wouldn't count on sheetrock stopping any 556 bullet unless I see something that convinces me otherwise.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I didn't say stop, it certainly won't stop it. What it will do is cause fragmentation. Id rather catch several small light pieces than one larger heavier piece. That being said it's definitely beat to play the angles to mitigate it to the best of your ability.

 

[ajridgedell]

I never have put much thought into different bullets penetrating walls, so personally I have no clue what would happen, but now you got me excited to shoot some walls up! ha ha. I do like the idea of being able to defeat soft body armor with 556, and I also don't know how many home invaders actually dawn soft body armor vs hard plate. I know if I was going to deliberately put myself in a situation where I thought I would be shot, such as invading someones home, I would want a hard plate. I have absolutely no expertise in that field, just simply spilling the logic in my head. But now that I think about it, if someone did have hard body armor, it would probably be easier to put a head shot on them with a rifle than with a pistol at my skill level.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I never have put much thought into different bullets penetrating walls, so personally I have no clue what would happen, but now you got me excited to shoot some walls up! ha ha. I do like the idea of being able to defeat soft body armor with 556, and I also don't know how many home invaders actually dawn soft body armor vs hard plate. I know if I was going to deliberately put myself in a situation where I thought I would be shot, such as invading someones home, I would want a hard plate. I have absolutely no expertise in that field, just simply spilling the logic in my head. But now that I think about it, if someone did have hard body armor, it would probably be easier to put a head shot on them with a rifle than with a pistol at my skill level.

Soft Armor isn't as uncommon as it once was. I think its safe to say there is more body armor both soft armor and plates available on the secondary market than ever before. Just food for thought.

 

[bigtattoo79]

Well ok. Hopefully that concludes the nonsensical interlude. My offer stands if you need a budget self defense gun PM me and I'll be happy to give you some options.

If you had to setup a home defense AR for 2k what would it be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

If you had to setup a home defense AR for 2k what would it be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Colt 6920: $1kish
EXPS-2 or AP PRO: $550-$450
Surefire Fury with Mount: $150-$200
VTAC Sling: $40


All of these prices are on the high side.

 

[MyBabyDaddy]

I respectfully disagree. That may be true when standing still and shooting a few shots at a stationary paper target on a one way range, but the reality is that assailants don’t stand still, they often come in groups of two or more, and they shoot back.

At best a shotgun will hold an average of 8 rounds and reloading is slow and clumsy- without adding stress to the equation. Overall, shotguns are long, heavy, unwieldy, low capacity and have an obnoxious level of felt recoil. Further, shotgun ballistics are not particularly predictable- it is not unusual for at least one pellet of 00 buck to miss a human size target at 20 yards. My personal discipline and the basic rules of guns safety dictate that I am responsible for every shot that I take, and therefore, I want to be sure that I know where it is going. That is not necessarily possible with a shotgun.

The amount of time it takes me to put three well placed 5.56 rounds into the A zone of an IPSC target at 25 yards is negligibly longer than pulling the trigger on a shotgun. I can quickly move from target to target, and track moving targets, without massive recoil pushing me around. Upon depletion of my 30 rounds, I can have the gun loaded with another 30 rounds in just a few seconds, and barely have to move the gun from my shoulder in doing so.

Unfortunately, a lot of folks grew up with their grandfathers telling them that shotguns are the best weapon to have inside a house, "because you can just point it down the hallway and pull the trigger." I think that we can all agree that military and law enforcement personnel are the trailblazers for civilians in terms of personal protection and offensive action. Try this: do a Google image search of "Swat entry team" and count how many shotguns versus rifles you see.

I’ve done a fair amount of training (18,000 to 20,000 rounds) with shotguns, rifles, carbines and pistols. My conclusion is that shotguns are fun to shoot and they are good for busting doors and hunting birds and squirrels. Outside of that, give me my AR any day. By the way, I disagree with VG, in that I would take my Glock over a shotgun in a home defense scenario every time.


Edited: I won't claim to have done "exhaustive" training.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Is that supposed to be a contribution to a constructive conversation?

 

[Pas Tout La]

It seems as though Colt is a safe bet in the sub $1,000 - $1,000 range. Is that an accurate assertion? I have a kitchen table build that has continuous FTF issues that I would love to replace with something built by an actual professional.

Also, what are your thoughts on variable powered optics for self defense? Namely the Burris MTAC 1-4? With my budget constraints, I can't justify spending $400 - $500 on a non magnified optic. I would prefer something more versatile I can use for self defense as well as plinking and punching holes in paper on the weekends.