LCP 380 Question

[jesse]

I bought a LCP last week, and after firing 200 rounds through it today (and the tender palm and trigger finger to go with it) with no stoppages I'm ready to start carrying it. My question is regarding ammo. I know 380 isn't the ideal personal defense ammo, but this gun allows me to carry when I otherwise wouldn't be. The guy at the gun shop I frequent suggests that FMJ are better than hollow points to carry in this gun, which goes against my limited knowledge base. What are your thoughts? Thanks.

 

[SpeedRacer]

I'd say the guy is an idiot. I carry Corbon or Hydra-shock hollow points in mine. I can't think of a single logical reason I'd choose FMJ...

Whatever ammo you decide to carry, I recommend running at least a few mags of it through the LCP to make sure it functions reliably.

 

[CZowner07]

Definatly NOT FMJ. I once shot a tree with FMJ from my 9mm and dug out the bullet. You could barily tell the bullet had been shot. It didn't expand at all. Like Speedracer said, Corbon DPX or hydra-shock would be a good choice. Although .380 isnt the ideal conceal carry caliber, like you said you will be able to carry it during the summer when you would otherwise not be able to carry. JHP is the only way to go for self defence pistol ammo.

 

[CZowner07]

BTW I also agree this guy is an Idiot. Go back and tell him that.

 

[CEHollier]

I own a LCP and researched this. Corbon DPX from what I have read.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Bersa Thunder.htm

 

[Storm52]

Another one for Corbon DPX. Thank being said...since guns are individual make sure yours feeds and extracts without any problems. Then you are good to go. I also suggest shoot Corbons for practice. Expensive yes, but I am of the school that you should practice with what you carry.

 

[dwr461]

What ever round you choose to carry make sure it'll penetrate at least sixteen inches. Also remember that at the velocities at which handgun rounds travel that very few HP rounds are reliable expanders against people. Against trees, water jugs, ballistic gellatin, etc. they'll expand every time. But not against people. I always recommend going with the heaviest round you can reliably fire from a weapon. Slower heavier rounds will penetrate people better, not deflect off of bones as easily, and get the major vital spots more reliably than lighter faster rounds. Just remember NO round is magic and NO round will guarantee a stop when it comes down to it.

I'd recommend the 100 grain hard cast lead flat nose from Buffalo Bore. Lead interestingly enough deforms as it hits bone but continues to travel generally forward. FMJ do weird things when they hit bone. Like travel around the skull under the skin. I kid you not. I've seen that wound multiple times.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=129
Dave

 

[altimar]

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=129

The LCP is not +P rated.

Anyone have anything to say about GoldDots in .380? As if I could find any...

 

[aroundlsu]

+1 The guy that told you to use FMJ is an idiot.

 

[JBP55]

What ever round you choose to carry make sure it'll penetrate at least sixteen inches. Also remember that at the velocities at which handgun rounds travel that very few HP rounds are reliable expanders against people. Against trees, water jugs, ballistic gellatin, etc. they'll expand every time. But not against people. I always recommend going with the heaviest round you can reliably fire from a weapon. Slower heavier rounds will penetrate people better, not deflect off of bones as easily, and get the major vital spots more reliably than lighter faster rounds. Just remember NO round is magic and NO round will guarantee a stop when it comes down to it.

I'd recommend the 100 grain hard cast lead flat nose from Buffalo Bore. Lead interestingly enough deforms as it hits bone but continues to travel generally forward. FMJ do weird things when they hit bone. Like travel around the skull under the skin. I kid you not. I've seen that wound multiple times.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=129
Dave

Do any of the carry rounds in .380 penetrate at least 16 inches? Which ones do that?

 

[CUJOHUNTER]

Do any of the carry rounds in .380 penetrate at least 16 inches? Which ones do that?

Hornady Critical Defense.
This particular round has almost the same stopping power as a .38+P. To me,it's the best .380 self defense load out there.

 

[JadeRaven]

Hornady Critical Defense.
This particular round has almost the same stopping power as a .38+P. To me,it's the best .380 self defense load out there.

Somehow I doubt that it penetrates 16". . . .

From the respective websites:

Winchester 380T -> penetrates 7.65"
95 grain, Muzzle velocity 1000 fps, 211 ft-lbs

Hornady Critical Defense
90 grain, Muzzle velocity 1000 fps, 200 ft-lbs

Now I know there is more to it than that, but 16" seems a little far-fetched.

With .380, unless you're using FMJ, you're not going to get more than about 10" of penetration. It's an inherently weak round.

 

[CUJOHUNTER]

I've taken that Hornady 380 load and shot through 4 wet yellow page phone books bound in ductape,partially expanding in the last phone book (judging by"wound channel") and finally lodging itself to an oak tree 5 feet from the books. This was shot at 15 feet. Maybe it was luck or the right circumstances at the time,but that's my testiment on that load. I wouldn't trust any other load to do that.

Weak load or not,you still don't want to get shot by any 380. I know...I got shot in the back by one partially paralizing me for 8 months. It didn't kill me cuz no major organs were hit but it hurt like hell for 2 seconds then I couldn't feel my left leg for 8 months,much less move it on it's own.

 

[JBP55]

I've taken that Hornady 380 load and shot through 4 wet yellow page phone books bound in ductape,partially expanding in the last phone book (judging by"wound channel") and finally lodging itself to an oak tree 5 feet from the books. This was shot at 15 feet. Maybe it was luck or the right circumstances at the time,but that's my testiment on that load. I wouldn't trust any other load to do that.

Weak load or not,you still don't want to get shot by any 380. I know...I got shot in the back by one partially paralizing me for 8 months. It didn't kill me cuz no major organs were hit but it hurt like hell for 2 seconds then I couldn't feel my left leg for 8 months,much less move it on it's own.

Did the .380 round go through your body?

 

[Ben Segrest]

Weak load or not,you still don't want to get shot by any 380. I know...I got shot in the back by one partially paralizing me for 8 months. It didn't kill me cuz no major organs were hit but it hurt like hell for 2 seconds then I couldn't feel my left leg for 8 months,much less move it on it's own.

Did the .380 round go through your body?

Yeah, details mang, details.

 

[CUJOHUNTER]

Did the .380 round go through your body?

Yes,the 380 fmj went through my body and through the floor board. This was an attempted robbery that resulted in the perp dying from 2 gunshot wounds from my 357 magnum and bleeding all over my refinished hardwood floors. This happened back in 1996.

 

[dwr461]

The buffalo bore claims penetration of 20 inches. That being said I don't own a .380 so I don't keep up with the round's capabilities.

Dave

 

[jesse]

Yes,the 380 fmj went through my body and through the floor board. This was an attempted robbery that resulted in the perp dying from 2 gunshot wounds from my 357 magnum and bleeding all over my refinished hardwood floors. This happened back in 1996.

Jesus man, at least you got the bastard.

Thanks for all the responses, the FMJ idea didn't seem to make much sense to be, but worth asking. I've learned alot from your responses, thanks.

 

[LACamper]

I don't agree I think I understand what they were implying though. I've heard this argument about .25acp also. The thought is that .380 hollow points are unlikely to open due to insufficient velocity (under 1000 fps was the theory). SO, if its not going to expand then you might as well carry fmj and save a few bucks and go for penetration instead.

I usually carry magtech hp's. I have a box of Winchester Supreme (I think- its a black box). The hp is so open I have trouble hand feeding them into my keltec. You have to push on the back of the slide a bit to get it to close. I haven't tried to shoot them yet but I'm doubting they're going to feed right.

 

[dwr461]

For HP's to be REALLY effective you need to get up to about 2100 fps. Then you get hydrostatic forces involved. I'm not telling anyone what to carry. For my Makarov I would only use FMJ's because it was only way to guarantee the penetration I believe you need. As a plus they feed reliably in most bottom feeder handguns too. What kills someone or stops the fight for sure is blood loss. End of story. For handguns there's no temporary stretch cavity etc. In my mind two holes are better than one.

Holes in limbs unless you hit a major artery or vein don't really bleed enough to kill someone in a hurry. Plus from talking to pt's I know that they really don't hurt much at first. Limb wounds are not great fight stoppers in general. Holes in the abd if you hit a major solid organ can cause some significant blood loss. The liver is a great example of a solid organ that can rupture when hit with a round. As much as two thirds of your blood is in your liver at any given time.

But in order to bleed out (exsanguinate) the blood has to have somewhere to go. Internal bleeding is bad but not necessarily a rapid fight stopper. You can only bleed so much into the abdominal cavity. Now if you're bleeding into your lungs for example there's lots of space and as a plus you can drown. But if you're bleed into the abd. cavity those organs and connective tissues can only displace so far. The bleeding can actually tamponade off. Meaning that the pressure of blood in the wound has equaled the systolic blood pressure. Which means that the force of the blood leaving the vascular compartment is less than or equal to the pressure inside the compartment of your abd. So bleeding is minimized. Plus blood that's pooled up inside the body unable to go anywhere will start to clot, further reducing immediate blood loss. This is one of the reasons why you take so long to die from a "gut shot." Now then if you have two holes exiting the cavity (both a entrance and exit wound) the blood leaving the vascular compartment has some place to go. The pressure never gets higher than the blood pressure and you can bleed out rapidly.

To give one example for more penetration being important to me. If you fire at a target and hit his arm before striking the chest. (A surprisingly common occurrence. People automatically put their arms up in front of them as a defensive gesture or if they're shooting at you the arm is still in front of them. Plus people tend to shoot at the weapon not the person holding the weapon.) The HP round has either expanded while passing through the arm already reducing its potential energy immensely or hasn't expanded and is now effectively a FMJ. Don't get wrong I carry HP's in certain calibers but only when I can get enough penetration to satisfy me.

Now then I've also seen FMJ's that leave huge exit wounds. For example we had a shooting of a minor with a 38 special FMJ. The bullet entered his back and struck his scapula obliquely. Which I believe flattened out the bullet. It then traveled through the musculature of his back and exited 3 inches to the right of the left shoulder. The exit wound was at least 2 to 3 inches across. Most FMJ exit wounds are not very impressive and difficult to tell from the entrance at first without experience. But bullets do weird things that aren't predictable. Also most FMJ's when I can recover them. I find them in socks, on floor next to the individual, on my stretcher, you get the idea. Are very minimally deformed and aside from the blood and rifling look good enough to use again. That is unless they've hit bone.

Anyway I'm going on and on here so I'll end it. I hope this helps explain my point.

Dave