Militarization of police

[the dubshow]

training is one thing. I dont care about knowledge. yes I can train, run 3 gun, shoot machines guns etc. I care about do process. I dont like the shoot first methodology. Have you not seen the videos of the stuff in NM? I dont want to see things like that in my state. I dont like the "us vs them" mentality that is starting to become more prevalent. Its shared by people on both sides...

Flashbang a homeless guy camping in the desert. Then shoot him 3 times. The bean bag him and release a dog? And then handcuff a dead/dying man?

 

[madwabbit]

training is one thing. I dont care about knowledge. yes I can train, run 3 gun, shoot machines guns etc. I care about do process. I dont like the shoot first methodology. Have you not seen the videos of the stuff in NM? I dont want to see things like that in my state. I dont like the "us vs them" mentality that is starting to become more prevalent. Its shared by people on both sides...

Flashbang a homeless guy camping in the desert. Then shoot him 3 times. The bean bag him and release a dog? And then handcuff a dead/dying man?

We have a thread right now about some clown cop in jefferson parish demonstrating how to properly ignore every procedure and regulation in the book... it doesn't mean thats the norm. The thread topic directly relates to budgets for training and hardware.

anyone making an argument that giving police departments mraps or m16's will equate to abuse needs to shut their mouth the next time a liberal tells them that if they own an AR15 it means they'll inevitably shoot up an elementary school.

you like using the argument when it serves your purpose, and oppose it when it does not. very hypocritical

(you) in this post means "anyone making the argument", not necessarily straight at you dub.

 

[oleheat]

I don't see what the issue is here.


People- if you KNEW when you left your house for the day that you were going to be dealing with a criminal who's just committed the crime of murder, would you be leaving with your trusty LCP? F __k no, you wouldn't.

These SWAT boys don't just roll out of bed and gather up to go see who they can harass, today. They usually have a pretty good idea of who they're going after and what they could be facing- and it ain't from "guessing". To suggest they should go in half-assed is nuts. I'm not talking about the MRAP crap. If you really think they don't "need" things like ARs, NV, and body armor....well....you are wrong.

 

[madwabbit]

I'm all for citizens owning similar hardware, but guys get serious- you can't expect barney fife with his .38 to arrest a man in kevlar with an AR, let alone prevent him from shooting a dozen random civilians.

 

[the dubshow]

I'm all for citizens owning similar hardware, but guys get serious- you can't expect barney fife with his .38 to arrest a man in kevlar with an AR Or to prevent him from shooting a dozen random civilians.

right. Im all on board with that logic. SWAT is needed, no argument. but where is the line of over militarization. It seems its become more of the standard practice than the exception. Are criminals any worse than in prohibition? They were better armed than the cops then.

ARs, NV and kevlar are all tools.

Is the MRAP just the next thing? A tool for the job? Do they need a .50 cal turret on the roof?

I dont use a 5lb mallet when hanging things on the wall.

 

[madwabbit]

no you don't. but you've got the mallet in the shed just in case.

same philosophy applies

imo "over militarization" has nothing to do with the hardware, and everything to do with procedure. I'm courteous and friendly to a few hundred citizens per shift while rambo'd up like im about to kick someone's door in.

when I get dispatched to a domestic with threat of a weapon, I'm ready and capable to respond asap without making a special trip "to the shed to fetch my mallet"

 

[the dubshow]

no you don't. but you've got the mallet in the shed just in case.

same philosophy applies

Ok then. As long as the mallet stays in the shed, all is good.

But when Barney Fife rolls up in a MRAP for a noise complaint...

 

[Jack]

Police don't need body armor and AR-15s?

 

[madwabbit]

Ok then. As long as the mallet stays in the shed, all is good.

But when Barney Fife rolls up in a MRAP for a noise complaint...

lol then you say "your truck is kickin more decibels than my subwoofer. cmon barney...." lol

 

[22doberman22]

Something to chew on.

Lets say we have a situation like Connecticut down here. You rather not comply and hold out on registering your high capacity mag and "assualt rifles". What will be used to round them all up? Marp? The good old boys can easily become domestic terrorist in the eyes of the left because we don't comply.
Lets not forget about those famous words from the far left.

 

[madwabbit]

approving a firearm registration is an astronomically long way from knocking on doors. most liberal states even shot down the registration.

 

[general mills]

approving a firearm registration is an astronomically long way from knocking on doors. most liberal states even shot down the registration.

Most liberal states did, but not all states. Yes it is an astronomical way from knocking on doors, but it is an unacceptable step in that direction. The saddest part of this thread to me is I can't help but give 22doberman22's point credit, while I do see the need for this kind of equipment to combat the current criminal threat.

 

[oleheat]

Lets say we have a situation like Connecticut down here.

I could see this happening.















.....if 90% of the voting tax base decided to move to Mississippi.


I wouldn't be too concerned, guys. A good many of those very "door knockers" in these parts have very similar beliefs to yourselves, on the gun issue.

 

[madwabbit]

A good many of those very "door knockers" in these parts have very similar beliefs to yourselves, on the gun issue.

this x100, believe it or not its absolutely true

 

[22doberman22]

A good many of those very "door knockers" in these parts have very similar beliefs to yourselves, on the gun issue.

Thats great that they feel the same way, but the real question is.... Will they be willing to stand down if they are given orders to do so?

Follow the orders I have been commanded or lose my job, not put food on the table, not pay the house note. These are the questions they will be dealing with.
Like the old saying goes...."No one knows what they will do until they are put in that situation"

 

[madwabbit]

Thats great that they feel the same way, but the real question is.... Will they be willing to stand down if they are given orders to do so?

Follow the orders I have been commanded or lose my job, not put food on the table, not pay the house note. These are the questions they will be dealing with.
Like the old saying goes...."No one knows what they will do until they are put in that situation"

a half dozen swat teams told the feds "no way" at ruby ridge.

I'd hand them my badge in a heartbeat, cant speak for others though...

 

[TerryK]

Yep...they get them for free and they mostly sit in a lot. Eventually they get scrapped. This sort of thing happens during military wind downs such as what is now happening in Afghanistan.

FWIW...they are too worn out for military use. Its nothing new...been going on for a long time. I have no problem with departments getting first shot at surplus military items which are no longer needed by the military.
I do think that the militarization of police is a dangerous trend. And I think its becoming somewhat of an "Us versus Them" mentality. This mindset is even worse among teenagers and young adults.

In the end...the Motto of most Police Departments is still " To Protect and Serve." And that should include all of society...not just the wealthy or sane population. I find it very disturbing to watch a video of a Swat team taking out an obviously mentally challenged individual.

+1

 

[oleheat]

Thats great that they feel the same way, but the real question is.... Will they be willing to stand down if they are given orders to do so?

Follow the orders I have been commanded or lose my job, not put food on the table, not pay the house note. These are the questions they will be dealing with.
Like the old saying goes...."No one knows what they will do until they are put in that situation"

A lot would have to happen for those type of orders to even be on the table, man.


But I have confidence most would. And I know of at least a couple who better.

 

[22doberman22]

a half dozen swat teams told the feds "no way" at ruby ridge.

I'd hand them my badge in a heartbeat, cant speak for others though...

That's good to know, I wish everyone would feel that way.

 

[Vsotok10]

I think the BR taxpayer's money could be better spent on training police rather than Kip securing a tank for bragging rights.