New Ruger 308 Scout Carbine

[Hardballing]

I don't see the scout as a battle rifle.

Give me a shorter box mag and I see it as a handy hunting rifle.

And that was Coopers original idea. Kind of a Jack Of All Trades if you will.

Was NOT designed to compete with dedicated sniper set ups, nor with (his words) "mouse carbines". What he said, IIRC, was that the concept was an allaround shooter, capable of killing 200-400 pound mammals, inside of the 400 meter envelope. He further added the box mag feature to, "get your ass out of a crack if you have to run and gun at distance".

Personally? I can think of LOTS of combo's that will do more jobs specifically, but...I always liked this concept. Simple is as simple does and it doesn't get much more simple than a modified Mauser 98 action. Really very little to EVER break. But would SA's Scout be better option? Sure, just because of semi capability. But then you have the complexity of that system too, increased maintenance, etc.

Frankly, I'll take a look at this one when it becomes a lil more widely available (meaning price drops a tad) and see what I think then. Was always a fan of the concept though.

Just my .02.

 

[Hardballing]

I can't BELIEVE they didn't put a stripper clip guide on this!

I hear ya. Now THAT would have been a great option.

 

[artabr]

How much would another 4" - 6" of barrel affect most 200 yard (or less) shots?

As others have said, not much, other than a slight increase in velocity.
The main reason for the short barrels in BR matches is weight.
There is a 10½ lb. weight limit in the lightest weight class.
Going with a shorter barrel allows them to use a thicker, more rigid barrel contour & still make their weight class.

The classes / weights are as follows:

Heavy Varmint / 13½ lbs. The barrel would not be less than 18” long forward of the
bolt face and a diameter of not more than 1.250 inches from
the bolt face forward 5 inches. From said 5-inch point, the
diameter would not be greater than would be defined by a
straight taper between such point and a muzzle diameter of
.900 at 29 inches.

Light Varmint / 10½ lbs. Barrel size follows the same rules as above.

Sporter / Same as above but limited to .23 cal. & less.

Unlimited / Any rifle having a barrel 18 or more
inches in length, measured from the face of the bolt to the
12
muzzle, and having a safely operated firing mechanism.



Art

 

[LACamper]

I love my jungle carbine, always have. I like having 10 rounds available. Accuracy has never been that great though. The other scouts were either extremely over priced or too heavy. I'm not crazy about the forward scope mount but a 8 pound gun with 10 rounds available is great. Shorter barrel is better. Its meant to be a 300 yard gun. Not a barret light 50.
Other than the can the only other thing that crossed my mind as an improvement would be to flute the barrel some to cut weight. Lighter is better.
Semiauto just complicates things and adds weight and cuts reliability. This isn't meant to be a battle rifle or bench gun. Its a scout rifle- you'll carry it more than shoot it.

A trijicon reflex scope on here wouldn't be bad either...

 

[Mjolnir]

How is it better than a .308 Gas Gun?

Less weight for one. And it will have a stronger, more reliable action being a bolt action.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

No way it weighs less empty. Better check the specs on that one. What are you gonna do with the action? Drive nails? Hit folks?

 

[smith625]

IMHO it would be a great gun for some high quality aftermarket iron sights, will this be used for game?

 

[leVieux]

I had a similar discussion with someone today on the 20" vs a 24" or 26". The opinion was that on a shorter cartridge like the 308, most of the powder was burned prior to the projectile clearing the barrel.

As to the issue of lost accuracy with shorter barrels, they also said that most of the M24 sniper rifles have 20" barrels (however, Wiki says 24" and 29") and those guys commonly make much longer shots that we do when hunting.

About 20 years ago, tired of juggling multiple calibers and too-long rifles, I bought my whole crew new Remington Model 7's in .243 Win. and have never looked back.

The modern short bbls are fine for hunting purposes out to around 250 or 270meters, which is about the limit for most of us deer hunters. I rarely take a deer shot over 130 or 150 yds, anyway.

One thing we learned, not being hand-loaders, is to stick with Federal Premium or Hornady ammo. The standard bullet weights don't seem to make much difference on whitetail deer.

The little rifles are much easier to transport, handle, and use. Don't skimp on the 'scope, though.

The Rugers are along the same lines, with better stocks. From my experience with Mod 77's, they should shoot well.

LeVieux
N4718R

 

[charliepapa]

LeVieux
N4718R

still have the Cutlass? I took my Commercial FW checkride in one.

 

[LA_Huntsman]

Both Weaver and Leupold make a EER scope for mounting in the "scout" position. The Leupold is a 2.5 and the Weaver is a 2.75. I will be getting the Leupold to go on my R92.

 

[Mjolnir]

No way it weighs less empty. Better check the specs on that one. What are you gonna do with the action? Drive nails? Hit folks?

The specs suggest otherwise:

http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html - 7 lbs empty.

What would the following weigh:

HK91
FAL
AR-10
M1A

None of these rifles weigh anywhere near 7 lb empty.

A bolt action rifle's action is more robust [and inherently more reliable and accurate] than that of a semiauto. Everyone knows this.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Bolt Guns, for instance the Remington Model 700, are no more inherently accurate than the current generation of semi-auto precision rifles like the SR-25 and M110. You have to compare apples to apples thought and none of the guns you listed are apples. More robust is maybe true and more reliable is certainly probably the case. I doubt this platform is sub MOA though and the guns I was referring to are. I bet if you laid an unloaded SR-25K without glass or mounts next to this rifle in the same state the weight would be similar. Wood is heavy. In fact I just checked the -25K weighs in at 7lbs 3oz.

 

[Mjolnir]

Precision bolt guns outshoot precision semis. Period. They are more robust and more reliable. They generally weigh less, too.

How much does a Steyr Scout weigh with optics? Care to shoot for groups against mine? How about the Steyr SSG PIIK? I'll match that rifle against ANY rifle (bolt or semi) for accuracy/precision. Semis do not consistently shoot like the latter rifle though I had an SR-9TC that shot 3/4" at 100 yds reliably and produced 0.35" center-center groups on more than one occasion. The Steyr PIIK was consistently a 1/2" rifle with 1/4" groups on occasion. I've shot five or six different PIIKs and they all shot similarly. The 26" barreled version shot around 3/4" at 100 yds. So "the same accuracy" will depend on your frame of reference.

The SR-25K (~8.5lbs. from what I recall on Knight Armament's website) is a nice platform for delivering small groups, too, but I've played with one of those as well as the US Navy M11Mod0 and while THAT is an impressive piece of hardware it could not outshoot the owner's Norm Chandler rifles or his buddy's Accuracy International. None of these rifles are considered "lightweight". I'd cover bets on the Steyr Scout or Remington LTR over that SR-25K...

I've expanded this discussion a fair bit so let's reign it in some: Bear in mind that same Ruger can be tuned to be impressively accurate and it's a helluva lot easier to extract pinpoint accuracy from a bolt than from any semi. This is simple physics and understanding the engineering required to deliver said accuracy.

Yes, the wood increases the weight of the Ruger. It could be close to 1/2 lb lighter at the expense of felt/perceived recoil. They could also flute the barrel, too and place a Battle Comp 1.0 on it.

 

[James Cannon]

Just like Ruger... still designing **** for 25+ years ago.

The irony of building another Jeff Cooper rifle is that the design should be the "one gun" you ever need, and the only people who will buy it are those with dozens of rifles already in their possession. I'm thinking that 99% of these rifles sold won't see >100 rounds through them in the next ten years.

 

[Hardballing]

Just like Ruger... still designing **** for 25+ years ago.

The irony of building another Jeff Cooper rifle is that the design should be the "one gun" you ever need, and the only people who will buy it are those with dozens of rifles already in their possession. I'm thinking that 99% of these rifles sold won't see >100 rounds through them in the next ten years.

Which makes them uber affordable when they come up on the used market next year.

Put me down for a barely broken in one near the end of 2011 or into 2012.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Precision bolt guns outshoot precision semis. Period. They are more robust and more reliable. They generally weigh less, too.

How much does a Steyr Scout weigh with optics? Care to shoot for groups against mine? How about the Steyr SSG PIIK? I'll match that rifle against ANY rifle (bolt or semi) for accuracy/precision. Semis do not consistently shoot like the latter rifle though I had an SR-9TC that shot 3/4" at 100 yds reliably and produced 0.35" center-center groups on more than one occasion. The Steyr PIIK was consistently a 1/2" rifle with 1/4" groups on occasion. I've shot five or six different PIIKs and they all shot similarly. The 26" barreled version shot around 3/4" at 100 yds. So "the same accuracy" will depend on your frame of reference.

The SR-25K (~8.5lbs. from what I recall on Knight Armament's website) is a nice platform for delivering small groups, too, but I've played with one of those as well as the US Navy M11Mod0 and while THAT is an impressive piece of hardware it could not outshoot the owner's Norm Chandler rifles or his buddy's Accuracy International. None of these rifles are considered "lightweight". I'd cover bets on the Steyr Scout or Remington LTR over that SR-25K...

I've expanded this discussion a fair bit so let's reign it in some: Bear in mind that same Ruger can be tuned to be impressively accurate and it's a helluva lot easier to extract pinpoint accuracy from a bolt than from any semi. This is simple physics and understanding the engineering required to deliver said accuracy.

Yes, the wood increases the weight of the Ruger. It could be close to 1/2 lb lighter at the expense of felt/perceived recoil. They could also flute the barrel, too and place a Battle Comp 1.0 on it.

I gave you the weight for the -25K out of the -10 Manual I have in front of me. Accuracy is a function of a lot of things. For instance shooter skill, glass, weather, ammo and finally equipment. The current generation of Semi-Auto Sniper Platforms are consistently providing 1/2 MOA accuracy to competent users on the battlefield. I would readily take your bet to shoot for groups. If your cluster is tinier than mine it is more likely you are a better shot not that your gear is better. Norm Chandler at Iron Brigade Armory custom Builds M-40 Type Sniper Rifles by hand. He is a meticulous guy and Im sure he squeezes every ounce of accuracy out his platform. The guys at AI do the same thing; hand build sniper rifles. This is not inherent accuracy it is tuned accuracy. I would hardly compare it to what your are going to buy from a factory at Ruger or Steyr. It is also not what your gonna get from the factory at Knights. Now if you take that SR-25 and send it to the AMU and let them play with it for a few weeks I have no doubt it will be able to produce the same level of tuned accuracy as the IBA and AI guns you suggested.

I googled the stats on this gun. and as you well know google can be dubious but Ruger says it is a 2 MOA gun. That tells me the barrell probably doesn't free float and that they didn't put much effort into building the most accurate rifle they could. There are also accuracy limitations in the scope layout of the Scout Design. For one Parallax is going to be an issue as is eye relief.

I have roughly the same amount of time behind rifles that you do researching Zionist One World Government. I don't care what your friends own or you have shot. On this particular subject my lab is reality. At any rate the original point was the rifles weight. You win. The SR-25K is 3oz heavier.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

How is it better than a .308 Gas Gun?

I understand, and pretty well agree with you.
(Which Is why I got a M1A scout)

You have to read up on what the Col had in mind.

I don't 100% agree with him (He was in a more hunter/OLD TIME scout frame of mind.)

Oh, as to the SR25... Coincidently a couple hours ago I talked to a buddy of mine... (Excuse me if I butcher the terms, I don't speak army) He's a Greenie beenie Weapons Sgt...

He took 'their version of sniper something-or-other' (Some odd name, started with an S IIRC) and said he used the thing... apparently he came in 1st in the SF community (Some Airforce guy beat him... for which I gave him a double ration of ****) he used the SR25... was not pleased with it.

Didn't ask for details as I have no interest in ANY AR.

Kids a hell of a shot and knowledgable gun guy, and that was BEFORE we kicked his ass into joining the Army.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Special Operations Target Interdiction Course, SOTIC. The 25 has it's fleas BELIEVE me. It jams far to often during sustained fire. What it does it does well though. It is highly accurate (as accurate as the M-24 was), has faster follow-up shots, Higher Capacity, and doesn't take a man out of the equation if close up fire power is called for. It has reliability issues. They do seem to be getting better with each iteration though. For the work it is being asked to do there just isn't a better platform and thats why people tolerate its short comings.

I think maybe had the shorter gas guns be available like they are now Col Copper may have spec'd one of them instead of the bolt. No matter how fast you can work a bolt its still slower than squeezing the trigger again and no matter how accurate you are some things need to be shot at least twice. But I know what ya mean.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

Special Operations Target Interdiction Course, SOTIC. That's it. The 25 has it's fleas BELIEVE me. It jams far to often during sustained fire. What it does it does well though. It is highly accurate (as accurate as the M-24 was), has faster follow-up shots, Higher Capacity, and doesn't take a man out of the equation if close up fire power is called for. It has reliability issues. They do seem to be getting better with each iteration though. For the work it is being asked to do there just isn't a better platform and thats why people tolerate its short comings. meh... if they would not stop more pvt peoples from researching, there would be.

I think maybe had the shorter gas guns be available like they are now Col Copper may have spec'd one of them instead of the bolt.Possably. No matter how fast you can work a bolt its still slower than squeezing the trigger again If you add the caviot WITHOUT ALOT OF PRACTICE. - look up the speed record set with an Enfield.and no matter how accurate you are some things need to be shot at least twice. Agreed But I know what ya mean.

Like I said, his vision, not mine. I agreed enough with you to make my 'first scout' a Semi

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Your preaching to the choir here. The NFA has destroyed the Small Arms R&D Base in this country. There is zero incentive for bright young engineers to create and invent. If the .mil won't buy it you can't sell it domestically or overseas. It is really tragic.