Private sale of handgun

[Leadfoot]

I appreciate you understanding my point of view on the matter, Mr. Liberty. But, I will repeat once again I am not a lawyer, or an ATF agent, I do what I feel is the absolute minimum I am required to do by law.

I am not suggesting that anyone do what I do. As I have said, do what makes you feel the most comfortable.

I don't want firearms in the wrong hands anymore than anyone else does. But I also don't want to deal with burdensome rules and regulations if I don't have to. I have friends who live in other states whos gun laws are absolutely draconian compared to what we have here in Louisiana.

I believe in doing your due diligence, under the law, to avoid violations, but don't make anything harder than it absolutely has to be.

I also want to say that I have had a private conversation about this topic with Krotsman, and I don't feel that he has "slandered" or defamed me in any manner. I would venture to say that we agree about more than we disagree about this topic and he understands my point of view, it just happens to differ from his own, and thats ok.

 

[krotsman]

I appreciate you understanding my point of view on the matter, Mr. Liberty. But, I will repeat once again I am not a lawyer, or an ATF agent, I do what I feel is the absolute minimum I am required to do by law.

I am not suggesting that anyone do what I do. As I have said, do what makes you feel the most comfortable.

I don't want firearms in the wrong hands anymore than anyone else does. But I also don't want to deal with burdensome rules and regulations if I don't have to. I have friends who live in other states whos gun laws are absolutely draconian compared to what we have here in Louisiana.

I believe in doing your due diligence, under the law, to avoid violations, but don't make anything harder than it absolutely has to be.

I also want to say that I have had a private conversation about this topic with Krotsman, and I don't feel that he has "slandered" or defamed me in any manner. I would venture to say that we agree about more than we disagree about this topic and he understands my point of view, it just happens to differ from his own, and thats ok.

we cool

 

[honestlou]

I want to try to clarify this, as there has been some demonstrably false information stated in this thread. I am an attorney, and this is the best that I can explain it to y'all:

State law can be more restrictive than federal law, but less restrictive state laws do not make it okay to violate federal law. Under federal law, an individual can NOT legally transfer a firearm to a person who resides in a different state. This is true for handguns, and long guns, no difference. This is true regardless of where the transaction takes place, ie. seller's state, buyer's state, or neutral state. This is true regardless of whether or not you knew or had reason to know that the buyer resides in a different state.

For emphasis, let me reiterate--it doesn't matter if you knew or should have known that the buyer resides in a different state. It is a federal felony to transfer any firearm as an individual to a resident of a different state. The "knew or should have known", or "reason to believe" language applies to whether or not the buyer can legally possess a firearm, ie. a felon. That language does NOT apply to residency.

So, make whatever choices you want, but please understand the choices you are making, and the chances you are taking. Not asking for ID does NOT protect you. You have committed a felony if you sell to a resident of a different state without going through an FFL, regardless of whether or not you had any reason to know the buyer's residency.

An FFL can transfer a long gun to a resident of any state (in person in the FFL's state), but an FFL can only transfer a handgun to a resident of the same state. A Louisiana resident can buy a rifle or shotgun at a Bass Pro in Florida, but cannot buy a handgun at that Bass Pro, that is cannot take possession there-it would have to be shipped to an FFL in Louisiana to do the transfer.

 

[Gator 45/70]

Something must be wrong with me and a lot of other people who believe we don't need the government's permission to buy or sell any a few firearms amongst friends regardless of what old white fat man drew a line in the dirt and calls it a state line ???

 

[krotsman]

Something must be wrong with me and a lot of other people who believe we don't need the government's permission to buy or sell any a few firearms amongst friends regardless of what old white fat man drew a line in the dirt and calls it a state line ???

I bet most all of us on this forum BELIEVE and agree with your statement, but it does not change the fact that the laws are in place and you run the risk of getting jammed up if you don't follow them, no matter what you believe...

 

[dantheman]

Who would have thought this would go 3 pages plus .

 

[thperez1972]

Who would have thought this would go 3 pages plus .

I'm surprised it's only on page 5.

 

[Grandpa]

I wonder how things are gonna be handled when my son in Florida inherits all my stuff

 

[krotsman]

I wonder how things are gonna be handled when my son in Florida inherits all my stuff

I believe that family inheritance is a straight personal transfer, from a federal perspective, state to state. The state may have more strict laws regulating it, though.

 

[dantheman]

I wonder how things are gonna be handled when my son in Florida inherits all my stuff

He loads it in the car and drives to Florida . Done deal .

 

[Gator 45/70]

I bet most all of us on this forum BELIEVE and agree with your statement, but it does not change the fact that the laws are in place and you run the risk of getting jammed up if you don't follow them, no matter what you believe...

Are we really supposed to follow them?

 

[krotsman]

Are we really supposed to follow them?

According to the social contract of citizenship that you enjoy, I'd say yes. If you don't want to commit a federal crime, whether you're caught for it or not, I'd say yes.

Also, the possible scenario of someone getting caught for not following the rules, more than likely in today's political climate, results in new laws being enacted curtailing the relatively free private transfer privileges (yes, privileges) that we enjoy. I'd rather not be forced to spend $40 and have to go to a gun shop to sell or buy a private firearm. So, the seller that plays fast and loose with private transfers puts OUR freedom and enjoyment of the hobby at risk, too.

 

[honestlou]

I wonder how things are gonna be handled when my son in Florida inherits all my stuff

Inheritance is a specific exception under federal law, so there is no problem in that situation.

As to comments about what people believe, I just want to say that when people ask a question such as "is it legal to....", they generally are NOT asking about what the law SHOULD BE, or what the chances of getting caught are, but are asking about the current state of the law. When such questions are asked, we should respond with facts about the current state of the law, not our opinions of what we think it should be.

There is nothing wrong with discussing what the law SHOULD BE; it's just not what was asked.

 

[Gus McCrae]

If I ship a gun to someone out of state without going through an FFL, thats a no brainer.

If I meet someone face to face in a parking lot, how is the ATF going to hold me responsible for transferring a firearm to someone residing in another state?

You can beat the wrap, but you can't beat the ride.

 

[Nathan Hale]

'You can beat the wrap, but you can't beat the ride.'

Quite succinct!

 

[nps_ranger74]

I have a question then some of y’all might be able to help me with . I inherited a large rifle collection, according to what I have read and seen on the atf site I can send them from me to me with no fly intervention is this true of false?

 

[geoney]

I have a question then some of y’all might be able to help me with . I inherited a large rifle collection, according to what I have read and seen on the atf site I can send them from me to me with no fly intervention is this true of false?

Correct

 

[nps_ranger74]

I ment ffl my bad. Damn autocorrect.

 

[JoeLiberty]

The "knew or should have known", or "reason to believe" language applies to whether or not the buyer can legally possess a firearm, ie. a felon. That language does NOT apply to residency.

.

Yes it does. Read the law. I bolded and underlined the important part just for you.
18 U.S. Code § 922

It shall be unlawful;
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

Where do you practice honestlou?

 

[geoney]

I ment ffl my bad. Damn autocorrect.

Correct.