Revolver

[mrmojo32]

LSP972.......

Thank you for such a well put and thought out explanation. The way I see it, any firearm regardless of what it's normal function is, could be needed to be used in a self defense situation. It sounds as though getting one with a lock is just asking for a potential problem at the one moment when it has got to work!

I think I will seek out a pre lock.

THank you.

 

[dwr461]

All my carry S&W's are too old to have the lock. My newer one's with the lock have the lock removed. Of course those have been competition revolvers that have had it removed. I do agree with Steve about the lock.

But I hope he understands that many our younger viewers won't know who Sophia Loren is.

Dave

 

[mrmojo32]

LOL... Yep.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

I have done a little bit of reading about post and pre lock Smith & Wessons. What do you guys really think about that. Are the pre models really that much more desireable?

Yes.

 

[mrmojo32]

Here is the only S&W I have now. After all of the recent reading I have been doing about revolvers and looking for a large frame one, I now know a great deal more about this one:

Model 10-5, and the serial number begins with D170*** meaning it is around a 1969 model if I am correct.

The 5 of the 10-5 has something to do with a modification of that year production.

And of course, this one is non lock.

I might have to take this one out to shoot sometime soon. I did find a Colt Python at a pawn shop today but they wanted like 1300.00 for it!

 

[Tx_oil]

Pythons are stupid high now. People are buying them up as investments rather than to shoot and enjoy. I got lucky and found a pristine 6" nickel 1975 Python in a gun shop last year for 700. Bouught it on sight, will never regret it

 

[dwr461]

All the Colt DA revolvers are stupid expensive. I can't believe that Colt can't get someone in there to start making them again. Even if in limited runs. Would anyone consider purchasing a 6 six 357 magnum that same size as a Detective Special? They have one in the late 1990's. With the concealed carry market taking off they continue to make SAA's and 1911's. EVERYONE makes 1911's but not Pythons, Magnum Carry's, Detective Specials, King Cobra's etc. How many companies make high quality SAA copies? Colt (is/has been) run by morons.

Rant over....

dave

 

[Nomad.2nd]

All the Colt DA revolvers are stupid expensive. I can't believe that Colt can't get someone in there to start making them again. Even if in limited runs. Would anyone consider purchasing a 6 six 357 magnum that same size as a Detective Special? They have one in the late 1990's. With the concealed carry market taking off they continue to make SAA's and 1911's. EVERYONE makes 1911's but not Pythons, Magnum Carry's, Detective Specials, King Cobra's etc. How many companies make high quality SAA copies? Colt (is/has been) run by morons.

Rant over....

dave

Today's colt is not Colt.

JMHO

 

[Hardballing]

IOW, if you're going to carry the thing, or just shoot mild-to-medium .38s in it, a K frame (which you already have) is the smart choice. If you want a heavy-duty shooter, a N-frame has the panache.

LSP just gave you VERY good advice above, founded on carrying guns for a living. I totally agree based on the same reasons.

Would also add, and this is a purely personal thing and very subjective, that the N's were just much more pleasurable to shoot with magnums. L frames with a heavy 158 grainer will make my wrist/web of hand sting (tallking with wood grips here) but in an N frame? Forgetaboutit. ALL day long pounding and nary a tickle. And the weight is not so much more that it will be uncomfortable for either all day CCW (get real familiar with pancake holsters and good belts here Compadre) or field use either.

I've still got an L frame too, a pre lock 7 shooter in 2.5" stainless, that is just too badass to part with. It too is scary accurate as well, but I reserve it for .38+p's and keep the N's for the true magnum loadings.

YMMV and almost certainly will. Hope this helps.

 

[dwr461]

I have to say that I shoot the K frame size the best. The trigger to grip relationship fits my hand very well in that size. Another way to say the same thing is my hand fits that size the best. Ed McGivern also preferred the K frame size. I also shoot the police positive size frame from Colt the best in that line up. The J-frame is too ridiculously small for me. The N frame and larger starts being a reach. I think that a lot of average sized male hands have the same problem in my opinion.

Dave

 

[scooterj]

I have to say that I shoot the K frame size the best. The trigger to grip relationship fits my hand very well in that size. Another way to say the same thing is my hand fits that size the best. Ed McGivern also preferred the K frame size. I also shoot the police positive size frame from Colt the best in that line up. The J-frame is too ridiculously small for me. The N frame and larger starts being a reach. I think that a lot of average sized male hands have the same problem in my opinion.

Dave

But you have the cutest little girlie hands

 

[mrmojo32]

First of all I would like to thank everyone again for being so helpful with my questions. There truly is a lot knowledgeable people here on this forum. Now to answer Lsp972's question about what I want the revolver for.

I have had a bunch of S&W's in the past and they all have been fun to shoot but I always just used them on trades for other stuff. As far a my personal guns go, one thing that I am missing is a really nice double action revolver and this time one to keep for good. You know how you have firearms that you know you would trade or sell if the right thing came along and then there are those that you know you will never part ways with? Well, that's what I am talking about. I want to get a really nice lifetime wheel gun. Now as far as what I would want it for: I would probably bring it out to the hunting camp for target shooting during the off season for the most part. It would not be for concealed carry as I have a 1911 for that so length and concealability is not an issue.

For the most part I love older firearms. My favorite shotguns are Model 12's and A-5's, for pistols I am a 1911 man. So I really think I am a more traditional firearms kinda guy. I sure don't think I would want a S&W that has a lock on it. I just like the 357 round in a revolver and I have always loved the way the S&W's that have the lock-stock that go all the way to the end of the barrel look, or the Colt Python.

I guess I am trying to say it would be more of a safe queen that would be taken out several times a year to go shoot.

 

[scooterj]

Sounds to me, a pre-lock 610 with a 6" barrel is just what you need. Mine is one of the few pistols I have that I will not get rid of.

 

[CEHollier]

Yes. I have a 6" 686 and bought my wife a 3" SP101. Haven't shot the Sp101 much. Next revolver will be a 4" Mod 66 for something a little lighter to tote in the woods.

^^^^This^^^^ The 686 plus with a 6 inch barrel is an excellent shooter. Another advantage is you can shoot cheaper 38 ammo in it. I also think it is a good looking wheel gun.

 

[dwr461]

I have a 1980's vintage M64 with a Bull barrel. I bought for $230 out the door last year. It's a VERY accurate duty sized 38 special. I've found that accurate firearms are always more fun to shoot than the inaccurate ones.

Of course the 610 is pretty hard to beat.

Dave

 

[Hardballing]

First of all I would like to thank everyone again for being so helpful with my questions. There truly is a lot knowledgeable people here on this forum. Now to answer Lsp972's question about what I want the revolver for.

I have had a bunch of S&W's in the past and they all have been fun to shoot but I always just used them on trades for other stuff. As far a my personal guns go, one thing that I am missing is a really nice double action revolver and this time one to keep for good. You know how you have firearms that you know you would trade or sell if the right thing came along and then there are those that you know you will never part ways with? Well, that's what I am talking about. I want to get a really nice lifetime wheel gun. Now as far as what I would want it for: I would probably bring it out to the hunting camp for target shooting during the off season for the most part. It would not be for concealed carry as I have a 1911 for that so length and concealability is not an issue.

For the most part I love older firearms. My favorite shotguns are Model 12's and A-5's, for pistols I am a 1911 man. So I really think I am a more traditional firearms kinda guy. I sure don't think I would want a S&W that has a lock on it. I just like the 357 round in a revolver and I have always loved the way the S&W's that have the lock-stock that go all the way to the end of the barrel look, or the Colt Python.

I guess I am trying to say it would be more of a safe queen that would be taken out several times a year to go shoot.

Of course, back in the day as it were, there was, "the Smython". (LSP, I KNOW you know what I'm talking about Brah! ) These were K frames that gunsmiths fitted Python barrels to. That was of course when Smith and Colt were the only real revolver games in town and priced very similarly. All that changed when Colt dropped revo production and collectormania took hold of any wheelgun with a pony on it.

On that note, I have seen some relatively inexpensive customizations of L frames (Magnaport does them, so does Gemini Customs) where a cut out rib is made on L frame barrels, a la Python. THink Magnaport charges, or did charge, around $100 for this mod and imho it looks pretty nice in 4" or 3" barrels. If you like the 6", no reason not to like that one too I guess.

In any event, skip the lock Brother. Just too many of them available, and for the same money or less, without them (leaving aside the issue of betting your life on one) and they are not making non lockers anymore.

Happy New Year and Happy Blasting.

 

[Doug.38PR]

I am looking to buy a revolver soon and my past experience has always been with single action Rugers and double action Smith and Wessons of various calibers from 22 up to 44 mag.

I am really wanting to get a nice double action, something like a Smith and Wesson 357 mag for self defense / target shooting. Of this type of medium to large framed double action revolver, what other types does everyone recommend? I have always loved the way the Colt Pythons look but I don;t think they are produced any more, not to say that I could not get oe used.

Whats the bottom line on this type of revolver? Who makes the best shooting?

THanks in advance.

In a nutshell, S&W's are mass produced parts, Colt's are craftmanship (excepting of course guns like the King Cobra that were made in teh 1970s and 80s).

More details:
For Colt's each part is hand fitted internally for that particular gun and each corner of each part affects something else in the action. Smooth action as well as a "bank vault" locked cylinder when firing (meaning the cylinder is held solidly in place when gun is discharged unlike Ruger and S&W giving the gun a bit more accuracy.) The double action of a colt is slightly longer than a post 1956 S&W (maybe even pre.) I/E frame Colts are sturdier and larger than the S&W K frames and can handle magnum and hot loads better.
The downside of Colt is that if it is abused and the timing gets thrown off, you'll have to send it to Colt or somewhere else across the country to have it fixed.

S&W are handfitted internally too, but not to the degree or as complicated as Colt's are. Your local gunsmith (real gunsmith) can handle it if the timing goes off or something else goes wrong. S&W are also inexpensive compared to colt's because it doesn't have as much manual labor put into it.

Either one is good and have their advantages. Personally I'm more of a Colt man. I have 2 Official Police .38s, a Detective Special and a Python and love them. I carry them and shoot them far more than either of my two S&Ws.

Some good Colts are, as you said, the Python .357 Magnum with it's full underlug, bull barrel and vented rib. (I like a pair of colt wooden target grips to go with it original or chinese replica) The Colt Trooper .357 Magnum which essentially looks like an Official Police .38 with adjustable sights. Nice plain looking gun too. *The Colt Trooper MK III which looks like a S&W M-19 on steroids with a half underlug and adjustable sights. *The Colt Lawman looks like bull barrled Official Police

*These two guns are actually two guns that have mass produced internal parts that are Colt made.

S&W has some good choices too. The M-19 which is a K-Frame gun. But there are also the larger N-frame guns that are sturdier than Colt's .357 Magnums (save the old old New Service). The Model 27 and the less expensive Model 28 Highway Patrolman (which the Texas DPS carried for years before being made to go to semi autos) I have a Highway Patrolman with a 6 inch barrel and that thing is like a hand cannon. Fun to shoot.
S&W also has the L-Frame which is essentially the same size as the Python. The 686 and 596 (currently made ones are 686+ and hold 7 instead of 6). There are several others that I am not familiar with that litter S&W's current website (I'm not too interested in guns made after the 1990s concerning S&W)

Another one you might be interested in is the Ruger Security Six. It is a nice sturdy workhorse that has class.

Let us know what you decide to get...and post some pictures. Good hunting!

 

[dwr461]

I agree with Doug except about the King Cobra. First there was the Mk3 in 1969. It was Colt's attempt to make a S&W type action. I have several. It wasn't nearly as good as the S&W at the time. So Colt went back to the drawing board and changed up some of the geometry of the MK3 and made the MK5 in the early 1980's. In the 1990's Colt was desperate to end the Python which required very skilled people to make. So they further refined the Mk5 and made the King Cobra. The King Cobra in my opinion was a better S&W action than the S&W of the time. I like it a lot more than the 686. The King Cobra was supposed to replace the Python at some time. Who knew when though? Since the management team at Colt sucked and changed regularly at the time it never happened.

On the Colt collector's forum they had slightly different reasons in mind for the existence of the Smolt in PPC. It was also from the perspective of competitors and additionally a gunsmith. I wasn't there though but like most things in life I suspect it's not as cut dried as all that.

Dave

 

[teesur]

Get you one like this - Model 27-2; 5 inch bbl. I bought it new in 1971, and it's still with me.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

IOW, if you're going to carry the thing, or just shoot mild-to-medium .38s in it, a K frame (which you already have) is the smart choice. If you want a heavy-duty shooter, a N-frame has the panache.

And a REAL revolver holds only five or six shots...

Please note that the above opionions are not universally held.

.

But they should be....


On the Subject of Colt vs Smith...
(Revolvers only, discounting Semi's)

I have 4, no 5 Colts, including a SAA from 1876.

I have over 30 S&W's.

I guess that says where I stand.