Sandy Hook School shooting thread

[SpeedRacer]

Personally, I would rather see armed LEO's stationed around the school; though that is probably far more costly. Though I don't mind armed teachers, they had better be trained. I'm not sure a two day course and 1000 rounds of ammunition prepare them for much, but it's better than nothing, I suppose.

Yes, let's spend billions of dollars a year placing armed guards at each of the roughly 130,000 schools in the US. Highly logical solution.

 

[jmcrawf1]

Yes, let's spend billions of dollars a year placing armed guards at each of the roughly 130,000 schools in the US. Highly logical solution.

Right. This is 'murica by god. Land of the free. Less taxes!!! Oh wait.

 

[Emperor]

They also said he was his brother and that his mom was a teacher. They're trying so hard to be the first to deliver news they are abandoning any attempt at respectable journalism or fact checking.

The most recent I read, from the coroner, is that all gunshot wounds were from the .223 rifle. That seems to be the most legitimate source of info so far, but who knows. It'll probably still be days or weeks before the actual facts come together and paint the real story.

A lot of misinformation. "Reporters" and "Journalist" playing guessing games.

Medical examiner: Rifle primary weapon used in shootings
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc/50210025/#50210025

Are you two surprised? The American media is souless, immoral, and corrput. Investigative journalism left here a long time ago. They are the equivalent to Joan and Melissa Rivers with a sprinkle of Entertainment Tonight.

 

[swamper]

Does anyone know where to find the source study by Ron Borsch that is being discussed below? I've been trying my damnedest to find it but have been unsuccessful. Trying to get a look at the whole study itself.

http://www.forcescience.org/fsinews...-single-officer-entry-against-active-killers/

 

[dawg23]

Yes, let's spend billions of dollars a year placing armed guards at each of the roughly 130,000 schools in the US. Highly logical solution.

U.S. dept of Education currently has a budget of about $70 billion. Take 1/10 of what they are spending on teaching illegal aliens (in Spanish), their "Initiative on Educational Excellence for African Americans," their "Initiative on American Indian and Alaska Native Education," their "Initiative on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders," etc., etc. and you'll be able to fund the securty personnel with plenty left over.

It's a matter of priorities.

 

[SpeedRacer]

I think the moral of the story is there's NO solution. It's hard for people to accept that in the wake of an event like this, so kneejerk reactions abound from all sides. It's silly to think gun control will prevent it, and equally silly to think arming teachers or putting armed guards at schools is feasible or will accomplish anything. Crazy don't play by the rules, so changing the rules won't help.

The only hope we have is personal awareness and vigilance by those directly involved with these people. There always seems to be a parent/friend/teacher/etc who could have done more to notice the warning signs and react accordingly to help prevent something like this.

 

[Cat]

Thanks for the legwork dawg. That's extremely interesting.

 

[oleheat]

Listening to the way the "old guard" of the anti-gun political leadership is seizing this opportunity (and you better damn-well believe that is EXACTLY how they are viewing this) makes me sick.

While many of us were saying to ourselves now was not the time to discuss the impact this would have on our common interest, you can rest assured the other side of this coin was most definitely crafting their all-too predictable response to this horrific event. There's no other way to say, guys: This is what many of them have been waiting for. I'm sorry, but I really believe this is the case. THERE IS NO "GRACE PERIOD" IN THEIR CREED.

I am just as heartbroken over this terrible event as anyone- but I do not believe holding the entire citizenry in contempt for the actions of this sick, demented bastard and those like him is the answer. Restricting the freedom of the good never has and never will bring down punishment on the wicked who walk among us.

I do believe designating areas as "gun free zones" is a huge mistake. If a deranged, suicidal person wants to inflict as much violent carnage as possible before he ends his disgusting existence, he is most-likely going to do it in a place that offers zero resistance.

Even the Ft. Hood shooter knew the area he was going to attack would not initially have armed personnel on the scene when he began.

I do believe an armed response opportunity was the only thing that could have stopped this- or at least had a chance to minimize it. What other option is there once someone like this breeches whatever minimal barriers stand in his way? There are none.

How we can achieve this should be what's being discussed- NOT radical gun control which will have ZERO effect on the people who do these cowardly acts.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A COP-BASHING POST. It's a reply to a post the post quoted above.

I'm presuming from your reply that you haven't taken any defensive handgun training classes. People who have taken a couple of these classses, and then practice regularly, would probably disagree with you also. People who haven't taken these classes have a very limited frame of reference.

I'm of the opinion that motivated students (and presumably the Texas teachers described above are very motivated) will be better qualified than the average cop to protect students. The average cop isn't a "gun person" and many, after academy classes, shoot only when required to re-qualify.

Talk to range owners if you want to get an unbiased assessment of how well cops, in general, shoot. It'll be very similar to the population at large -- some shoot well, but most do not.

Talk to some LEO firearms instructors about the dilution of training standards -- or about the cadets they were told to pass, despite their inability to pass the qualification course of fire.

If the schools were to take officers from their SWAT units and put them in schools, I'd agree with you. But many seem to take the guys who can't fit anywhere else and make them "school resource officers."

Not to be argumentative but we have teachers everyday showing up for work drunk, screwing students and commiting other crimes. Who's gonna teach thematic it's and responsibility. Not town room there is a huge difference in Passive Security which is what armed teachers would be and Active Security which is what a School Resource Officer should be.

 

[Sugarbug]

Yes, let's spend billions of dollars a year placing armed guards at each of the roughly 130,000 schools in the US. Highly logical solution.

Versus paying a few hundred and saying a teacher is now competent enough to defend children with a firearm?

Armed, competent teachers are a good thing and a good idea, but God have mercy on the one that shoots my son or daughter trying to "protect" them.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Listening to the way the "old guard" of the anti-gun political leadership is seizing this opportunity (and you better damn-well believe that is EXACTLY how they are viewing this) makes me sick.

While many of us were saying to ourselves now was not the time to discuss the impact this would have on our common interest, you can rest assured the other side of this coin was most definitely crafting their all-too predictable response to this horrific event. There's no other way to say, guys: This is what many of them have been waiting for. I'm sorry, but I really believe this is the case. THERE IS NO "GRACE PERIOD" IN THEIR CREED.

I am just as heartbroken over this terrible event as anyone- but I do not believe holding the entire citizenry in contempt for the actions of this sick, demented bastard and those like him is the answer. Restricting the freedom of the good never has and never will bring down punishment on the wicked who walk among us.

I do believe designating areas as "gun free zones" is a huge mistake. If a deranged, suicidal person wants to inflict as much violent carnage as possible before he ends his disgusting existence, he is most-likely going to do it in a place that offers zero resistance.

Even the Ft. Hood shooter knew the area he was going to attack would not initially have armed personnel on the scene when he began.

I do believe an armed response opportunity was the only thing that could have stopped this- or at least had a chance to minimize it. What other option is there once someone like this breeches whatever minimal barriers stand in his way? There are none.

How we can achieve this should be what's being discussed- NOT radical gun control which will have ZERO effect on the people who do these cowardly acts.

You have to be careful when comparing apples to oranges. The Ft Hood shooter was is a terrorist. He absolutely picked a soft target. I doubt this whacko much like the whacko who shot Gabbie Gifford gave any thought to the likelihood he would encounter resistance. He's nuts crazy people by deffinition don't relate to the potential consequences of their actions. While a terrorist or criminal may be dissuaded by the potential of armed resistance a psychotic will not.

 

[dawg23]

Not to be argumentative but we have teachers everyday showing up for work drunk, screwing students and commiting other crimes. Who's gonna teach thematic it's and responsibility. Not town room there is a huge difference in Passive Security which is what armed teachers would be and Active Security which is what a School Resource Officer should be.

Did you even read the requirements the Texas school district imposed. Yeah, some teachers show up drunk -- and so do some cops. I think that a criminal background check, drug & alcohol testing (these programs include random testing, not just a one-time pre-employment test), and an alert principal who is supposedly trained to look for signs of imparment, are probably reasonable ways to make sure level-headed, armed adults are present. Is this the answer ?? --- probably not.

I never said arming teachers is the solution. I first responded to clarify that the school discussed in a previous thread was a public school, not a private one.

My follow-up email was to emphasize the fact that huge amounts of federal $$ are wasted every day. So money alone shouldn't be an impediment.

But I still say the average cop is unsuited to handling an active shooter. More and more communities have LE agencies that have received active shooter training. But these guys are "10 minutes" away.

The pricipal who reportedly tried to stop the shooter in Connecticutt might have had a chance to stop him had she been armed. The teacher who was reportedly found lying on top of her students, trying to shield them with her body, might have been better able to protect them with a gun.

I don't have a proposed solution. I have been (and am) opposed to allowing students at colleges to walk around armed. I am OK with teachers, assuming they are vetted and trained like the Texas school district did.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I don't disagree with some of that but at the same time I feel that what works for a tiny school district in rural Texas fails in a place like Baton Rouge.

 

[oleheat]

You have to be careful when comparing apples to oranges. The Ft Hood shooter was is a terrorist. He absolutely picked a soft target. I doubt this whacko much like the whacko who shot Gabbie Gifford gave any thought to the likelihood he would encounter resistance. He's nuts crazy people by deffinition don't relate to the potential consequences of their actions. While a terrorist or criminal may be dissuaded by the potential of armed resistance a psychotic will not.

Maybe so, man. I don't doubt what you're saying.

He did have the ability to think and reason, though. The little SOB went as far as to try and destroy his computer hard drive so investigators would have as hard a time as possible- as if to leave one final insult to it all.


I hope it's hot where he is now.

 

[dawg23]

I don't disagree with some of that but at the same time I feel that what works for a tiny school district in rural Texas fails in a place like Baton Rouge.

Can't argue that one. I'm pretty sure there is no "single solution" for BR schools (except maybe a few private ones ).

BR is a jungle, full of bona fide savages. I guess the same goes for NO. Mix in the savages with the domestic disputes, the mentally ill, the meth tweakers and bath salt smokers --- and there's no "single answer."

 

[Brian22]

Let's hope this is just nothing and not a copycat. School districts 20 miles from Newtown on lockdown after man with rifle possibly seen at train station near school:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/17/connecticut-school-district-in-lockdown-following-report-suspicious-person-in/

 

[Brian22]

Let's hope this is just nothing and not a copycat. School districts 20 miles from Newtown on lockdown after man with rifle possibly seen at train station near school:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/17/connecticut-school-district-in-lockdown-following-report-suspicious-person-in/

Paranoia.... It was an umbrella. Lockdown lifted.

 

[oleheat]

Hmm.

Absolutely shameless. At least some are calling him out on it....

Dem says Obama must 'exploit' shooting for gun control, sparking fury.

http://now.msn.com/newtown-connecticut-shooting-must-be-exploited-rep-jerrold-nadler-says

 

[Gus McCrae]

Sandy Hook Motive?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/1...d-may-have-caused-connecticut-madman-to-snap/

Just saw this.

 

[Wolfgang1952]

No one has talked about this but Fox. Adam and his Mother was sharing the same bed. Something wrong there. Everyone wants to blame the GUN