Shooting competition for Defensive Training

[Sin-ster]

Its as though maybe you heard shoot slow and do everything else fast once or twice before.

Yeah, I say that to newer competition shooters all of the time!

That's quite funny that such an important principle is so explicitly stated by both "sides of the fence", when so many people (no, not you!) believe that competition shooting is just about slinging bullets without worrying about where they land. See, we can all be friends!

Small tid-bit-- the World Champ level GMs know that they *must* shoot 93-95% of the possible points on each and every stage to have a shot at winning. On top of being as fast as the next guy-- which is to say, STUPID fast.

 

[Sin-ster]

Trent, I think you have a great point here. I can't recall the number of times I've been to the range with guys who set their pistol on the table, load their mags, and walk up to the line. Or the guys who come with 4 entirely different guns to "play". If you're training/practicing from a defensive standpoint, then training with anything other than your standard carry package makes no sense. I've never shot matches, but I've watched and bs'd with the guys a few times, and they have some damn nice guns, but nothing I could see actually carrying. My hour every couple weeks is much better spent training with my carry gun/holster/mag pouch.

Meh.

The shooting part of it translates. Perhaps the equipment differences, and the time spent learning them, are a factor worth considering-- but less so if you shoot in a Division or with gear that's more akin to EDC stuff. And even that, IMHO, is questionable provided that the person practices at least some with their carry gear.

I've run myself on the timer with the "race set up" and my EDC gear, and when I remove the effects of concealment (t-shirt takes about .2 to get out of the way), the numbers are essentially the same. I think the sentiment goteron is expressing is a matter of which one you'll go for under the stress of a violent confrontation. I can actually speak to that, to some degree.

First and foremost, my gaming rig is damn cumbersome for a skinny guy like me. It weighs a metric crap ton, I have to strap it on tighter than my regular belt, the muzzle end of the holster rubs rather annoyingly against my thigh, and I can't drop or swing my arms without hitting a mag or the butt of the pistol. The EDC rides much higher and tighter, and the same pieces of gear that hit my forearms now rub against my ribs with every little twitch. The point being that there's NO mistaking which one I have on, under any circumstances. (Even less so when I'm moving...)

I got startled the other day at a buddy's house while we were lounging around watching a movie after our friends had left from their Jazzfest visit. It was pretty late, he lives in a questionable area, and there was a nasty noise at this back door. I genuinely thought someone was coming through it and afterwards, I was shaking so bad that I couldn't handle my soda can-- adrenaline dump at its finest.

My reaction was to stand, move out away from the couch, and draw. I can say without a doubt that I didn't go for a gun that wasn't there, or for that matter, miss a beat. I even indexed my weapon light-- which WAS a direct result of training, despite the fact that 90% of my practice is with a gun that doesn't wear one.

Now, that might no be common for all folks-- regardless of how much they train, and even in what venue they do it. But that's how it happened, whether it means I'm a lucky freak of nature or not.

 

[70116]

...I will say after seeing some of the open guns, I wouldnt mind trying an open M&P. With a frame mounted optic and comp.

As far as I know, I'm the only one with "Open M&P's" in the area. The optics are slide mounted Delta Points which I know you're familiar with. If I recall, I showed you the guns the day I met you in Kenner.

Both Sin-ster and enutees, as well as many other folks on BS, have shot my M&P Open guns and can give you feedback.

The only problem is that I headed north just before you started this thread and won't be back for a bit. I'll PM or email you to set something up.

 

[goteron]

Shoot a lot with people that shoot better than you, one way or another. Competition, training, whatever. Shoot. Think. Think while shooting. Shoot until you can shoot anything you find in your hand.

Aint that the truth.

 

[Sin-ster]

70116's Open M&Ps are freakin' awesome. I was really surprised at how well the dot tracked, being slide mounted-- the comp and load are about as tuned as any I've ever been fortunate enough to shoot.

It also helps that I've got just a wee bit of experience with the platform, and his FSS triggers are almost identical to the work that Burwell did on my 9 Pro.

You should look into it, goteron-- I would call them EXTREMELY competitive with the full-blown custom 2011's, and at a vastly reduced cost. Apparently, they also run like a service gun and aren't as finicky as a race pistol-- which is SUPER nice.

 

[goteron]

I have a design for a frame mount for an RMR I came up with. I will have some time before the next match, I may turn a custom comp and make that mount and bring a 9 pro frame mounted comp gun.

If I get it done in time, someone is welcome to shoot it.

 

[scooterj]

I have a design for a frame mount for an RMR I came up with. I will have some time before the next match, I may turn a custom comp and make that mount and bring a 9 pro frame mounted comp gun.

If I get it done in time, someone is welcome to shoot it.

Does this mean that the comp will be mounted to the frame or just using a 9Pro frame?

 

[enutees]

Does this mean that the comp will be mounted to the frame or just using a 9Pro frame?

Pretty sure he means frame mounted dot.

 

[goteron]

Yes, frame mounted dot, comp. much like the sjc setup.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

You know that State Farm commercial Trent? Stop building them frivolous things! Build me frivolous things!

 

[Sin-ster]

You know that State Farm commercial Trent? Stop building them frivolous things! Build me frivolous things!

The man's gotta make a living!

And the one advantage we gamers have is that we're a better money market!

I'd shoot it, Trent-- even Open Minor with 17 round mags. I think the question of a holster that'll fit it will be the issue, though.

 

[goteron]

Someone has to have a spare space holster.

 

[70116]

Bo, thanks for the nice words. As you know, I've worked hard at getting them set up and it was really fun to watch your surprised expression when you shot them.

Trent, You can certainly do a bunch of mods. My major 9L has a lightened slide, Storm Lake threaded barrel with popple holes, modified Jager Comp, magnesium guide rod, modified Recoil Spring, APEX FSS, APEX RAM, modified ejection port, Delta Point, magwell, and finely tuned ammo loads as well as a year's worth of frustration and tuning. I'll be back in town in a few weeks and will be happy to make arrangements for you to shoot it.

I'd love to have a frame mounted Delta Point and have a second 9L that could be modified. A number of people have tried unsuccessfuly so far but I'm certain that there's a method that'll work. Something that would also fit a 9FS would be a real bonus too.

 

[70116]

Someone has to have a spare space holster.

I have both right and left handed AA Competition holsters you can borrow.

 

[scooterj]

Someone has to have a spare space holster.

The CR Speed can be made to work with most any gun by adding or removing spacers.