stock rifle accuracy

[general mills]

First of all, I am no rifle shooter, I have only shot a gun with a scope once, and am no real judge, so I ask you with more experience.
At work today, 2 guys were talking about rifles, and if the accuracy at 100 yards was like this, would the manufacture take it back. Well, that caught my attention, and I asked like what? The fellow held his hand out in the OK symbol with a small gap, indicating a 2 inch group or so. I said that seemed pretty good. They scoffed and the first guy said he must have gotten some really good rifles, because all his will shoot a 1 inch group at 100 yards. The second guy said his wife's rifle will shoot a .35 inch group at 100 yards. I said I thought a 2 MOA group from an off the shelf rifle with factory ammunition is excellent. They looked at me like I was kind of retarded, so I said I would love to see it.

So, what can one expect from an off the shelf rifle? I asked what kind of gun they were talking about, and they really wouldn't narrow it down, kind of like they meant any rifle. Lets say a decent wal mart bolt action (rem 700? like I said, I don't know much about rifles) in the hands of an excellent shooter. I would think less than 2 MOA would be very good. (all holes inside an OK symbol made with your hand.

 

[NOShooter]

my 16.5" barrel remmy 700 in .308 will shoot .8 MOA out to about 600 before it loosens up a little, if i do my job.

My savage 110 in .300WM will shoot 1/2 MOA to 800 if i do my job. I have not gotten the chance to take it out past that, but i don't doubt that it will stay tight out much farther.

1 MOA is the standard that all rifles are judged by.

2 MOA , to me, means that you either aren't doing something right ( the most logical option), or you have an equiptment problem ( less likely, still possible).

Glass has a large part to play here too.

I have seen many a shooter swear that thier rifle was faulty, only to have another shooter, or RO give it a whirl and shoot a clover leaf at 200 yds.

There is a big difference between a good hunting rifle and a precision rifle, i guess.

 

[Metryshooter]

I'd make sure he had good glass that's properly tightened down. I've seen that one more than once, including myself. Also, some rifles are really finicky which ammo they like. I have seen a Ruger 30-06 that would print baseball sized groups with match ammo but cloverleaf with Power-points.

 

[3fifty7]

Some mfgs advertise guaranteed MOA accuracy with premium factory ammo.
If you buy one of those rifles and can manage multiple 5 shot groups or better yet 10 shot groups, I'd say you were well ahead of the game.
Not to say that a factory rifle without a guarantee is going to be less accurate.
Just under 2 MOA will get the job done for the overwhelming portion of the shooting population.

 

[ajridgedell]

In my experience if a factory rifle shoots under 1 Moa with factory ammo I am impressed. I've sighted in many new rifles for customers with their choice of ammo and the average off the top of my head is around 1.5 Moa. I think a lot of people act like their rifles shoot better than they really do. Maybe they shot one three shot group that small but will it stack 6-10 shots that tight? Idk.

 

[Jmfox3]

"Most" scoped rifles today will shoot MOA or slightly over. Some scoped rifles will shoot sub MOA right out of the box. Open sights won't shoot sub MOA...the front bead covers 3 to 4 MOA. Bolt guns are the most accurate actions. Lever actions are the least accurate but will still shoot 2 MOA; I used to shoot coke bottles at 100 yards with a Winchester 94. Barrel rate of twist has a lot to do with the weight of bullet it will stabilize; heavier bullets require a faster twist. These are generalities.

 

[CHW2021]

OK, Freud would have a ball with this one, but fishermen brag that theirs is bigger and riflemen brag theirs is smaller.
The realistic scoop is that 1" groups at 100 yards is realistic with most off the shelf (even low cost) rifles with a decent shooter. When ranges increase beyond 300 yards you are not testing the rifle, you are testing the shooter. There is a point where I forgo accuracy and settle on minute-of-bambi accuracy that will put meat in the freezer.
Regardless of who is bragging about which rifle (and believe me that 1/2" is quite possible) believe what you see and know that todays rifles are outstanding due to exact machining, the variable is the man behind the trigger.

 

[general mills]

Interesting, thanks. I guess some day I need to try to shoot with a scope. I have a couple of old military rifles and if my holes are in a 3 inch circle at 100 yards, I'm having a good day.

 

[sportsbud]

Old military guns are seldom "new" so they could be worn and "out of the cosmoline " they don't have the accuracy modifications like bedding and free floating done to the barrel,(unless its a K31) also if shooting surplus war ammo it is not made to exacting standards so that can have an effect if you were to shoot modern high quality ammo out of most war rifles they will shoot better then you think... One of my finnish Mosins an M39 just printed about 1 inch groups with 185 grain Monarch 7.62x54R not bad for an old war horse not using anythign but Irons I expect better with better ammo and maybe glass (not doing that to her) meanwhile I had an old shot out M1 garand that was lucky to shoot 7" groups at 100 yards... I bet that Mosin was shot a lot less...

 

[LCPL 4]

....Open sights won't shoot sub MOA...the front bead covers 3 to 4 MOA....

I'd edit that before one of those pesky, good-for-nothing High Power shooters sees it.

 

[Ritten]

Open sights won't shoot sub MOA...the front bead covers 3 to 4 MOA.

That would have been my new sig line if I had any inkling that it was intentional.

 

[Request Dust Off]

Old military guns are seldom "new" so they could be worn and "out of the cosmoline " .

I am stealing that, it will be my new excuse for non-performance. I was out of "Match-Grade Cosmoline"

 

[sportsbud]

I am stealing that, it will be my new excuse for non-performance. I was out of "Match-Grade Cosmoline"

I think some people think cosmoline enhances accuracy so they keep it on then complain when **** stops working on their firearm and the bolt wont open...

 

[Barney88PDC]

Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder. What is great to some is below others standards. I have also learned that you certainly have to start with a solid rifle with a quality scope mounted with quality rings and bases. But that still may not be enough.

The key to true accuracy lies in the ammunition. I can take a great rifle and feed it a load it doesn't like and it will shoot below my standards. But once you find the magic combination of bullet, seating depth, powder type and charge using quality brass that has been properly sized with the correct neck tension the results can be astonishing.

The end requirement dictates the needed accuracy and this is what most people do not realize. What I mean is when most people say "Hey what rifle do you think I should get?" I usually tell them the one they like the most. They look at me funny then I ask you are probably asking this because you want to hunt deer with it right? Yea. You will probably never shoot past 200 yards with it right? Probably not. So go get the one you like. The kill zone on a deer is +/- the size of a basketball and to hit minute of basketball at 200 yards you do not need to break the bank. Any new modern rifle with decent ammo should be able to do this easily. Now if you are trying to hit that target at 800-1000 yards then that is a VASTLY different requirement that needs different equipment.

Truth be told usually the rifle is not the weak link, the shooter is. But a modern rifle with and decent scope and factory ammo that the gun likes (this is why you need to try different ammo if you don't reload) should shoot 3 round 1" groups.

 

[Emperor]

Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder. What is great to some is below others standards. I have also learned that you certainly have to start with a solid rifle with a quality scope mounted with quality rings and bases. But that still may not be enough.

The key to true accuracy lies in the ammunition. I can take a great rifle and feed it a load it doesn't like and it will shoot below my standards. But once you find the magic combination of bullet, seating depth, powder type and charge using quality brass that has been properly sized with the correct neck tension the results can be astonishing.

The end requirement dictates the needed accuracy and this is what most people do not realize. What I mean is when most people say "Hey what rifle do you think I should get?" I usually tell them the one they like the most. They look at me funny then I ask you are probably asking this because you want to hunt deer with it right? Yea. You will probably never shoot past 200 yards with it right? Probably not. So go get the one you like. The kill zone on a deer is +/- the size of a basketball and to hit minute of basketball at 200 yards you do not need to break the bank. Any new modern rifle with decent ammo should be able to do this easily. Now if you are trying to hit that target at 800-1000 yards then that is a VASTLY different requirement that needs different equipment.

Truth be told usually the rifle is not the weak link, the shooter is. But a modern rifle with and decent scope and factory ammo that the gun likes (this is why you need to try different ammo if you don't reload) should shoot 3 round 1" groups.

Very well stated!

Almost everyone I know personally that partakes in distance accuracy shooting, loads their own bullets. Inside of 150 yards am very accurate with my stock rifles and my preferred choices of factory ammo, and 200 yards on a rest shouldn't be a problem either. Any further, I doubt I could hold a candle to my buddy against his loads.

As for 800 yards? I would have to walk them in like artillery!

 

[sandman7925]

Most firearm makers have the whole thing figured out pretty good at this point. Any advancements in gun technology these days are very small advancements. You would be surprised what a $400 dollar bolt gun can do. Hell I have a Marlin 35remington and a Marlin 45/70 lever actions that can hold a three shot 1" group at 100yds if I do my part.