Wal-Mart Gun in hand....what would you do?

[Kahuna_Kennen]

Number 2.

 

[Witiku]

That is why I included the option to be discreetly drawn. that way, you are hopefully not a direct target, but if he starts shooting, then you can possibly return fire.
http://www.forcescience.org/

What are your professional thoughts on seeing a gun drawn on arrival?

I can draw and have my gun fairly well concealed with arms folded or it behind my leg but only form frontal view. Viewed from the side or back and there is a Man with a gun standing there.

I wonder what the reaction of any responding LEO might be. Uniformed and radioed info prior to scene VS off duty and uninformed of the senario just there shopping like you but ,Late to the scene to the man with a gun commotion, and just seeing you with your gun out. CCW not seeing this LEO at all.

Tks

 

[LACamper]

I think their response would be Bang!x 17, reload, Bang! x 16, then scream "Freeze!"

 

[Nolacopusmc]

What are your professional thoughts on seeing a gun drawn on arrival?

I can draw and have my gun fairly well concealed with arms folded or it behind my leg but only form frontal view. Viewed from the side or back and there is a Man with a gun standing there.

I wonder what the reaction of any responding LEO might be. Uniformed and radioed info prior to scene VS off duty and uninformed of the senario just there shopping like you but ,Late to the scene to the man with a gun commotion, and just seeing you with your gun out. CCW not seeing this LEO at all.

Tks

Regardless of the circumstances, having a gun out when a "man with a gun", "shots fired", or "suspicious persons" call comes in is never a good place to be in whether Off Duty LEO or CHP holder. However, sometimes that is the only option if you have a submissive suspect/attacker at gunpoint.

In this particular circumstances, you would hope that the whole "wearing only his boxers," would be a clue to responding officers about who the BG is and who potential good guys are. However, with the dynamic and often unbelieveable series of events that take place with incidents today, you can expect to most likely be ordered to drop your gun and probably be handcuffed until everything is figured out.

Best course of action IMHO in a situation like this is to do exactly what your told and move very slowly.There will likely be many officers pointing guns and possibly conflicting verbal commands unless you have the luxury of a very locked on shift who understand the concept of contact and cover and use it.

That is why I listed #2. the thought process was you would discreetly draw firearm and keep it low out of site in case this evolves into a hyper-violent shooter situation. If police arrive and take over, you could discreetly re-holster and wait to be a goods citizen and give a statement.

Of course, all kinds of variables like who/how many in store, your location relevant to where the BG is or cops enter, and other things will dictate if this is possible.

The reality is that very few police officers arrive at a scene where a GG is holding a gun. LEO is trained through response conditioning that gun=bad, because almost every gun call they encounter involves a BG with a gun, not a GG.

That is why when I used to design LEO training, I always had some no-shoot armed targets involved to simulate off-duty LEO or CHP holders. I also always ran scenarios that included a couple that were resolved with no shots. There is a lot of training ideology that goes into this kind of thing, but you really can't fault the individual officer for falling victim to institutional inertia.

Hopefully you would get a LEO like me or others on this board who are a little more educated on gun issues and probably more observant for the CHP holder than most LEO.

 

[Cocked]

WWQTD? What would Quentin Tarintino do? I think rounding up all of the customers and retreating to the gun counter where all guns in stock are loaded and divy'd up. Massive shoot out ensues, eveything item in the store catches a round or two, including bad guy. Bad guy stumbles into the bathroom falls against a stall door which flings open to find a one eyed man on the toilet who draws from his ankle holster to finish the underwear bandit off. Customers keep the guns fearing eminent attack from vampires.

 

[Hitman]

Being that I'm not an Official Law-man, I have no duty to automatically protect anyone but myself. HOWEVER!, I'm not one to stand by and let innocent civilians become the subjects of some loony-tunes mayhem.

Therefore I would take cover, call 911, and keep eyes on; not JUST the BG, but other possible armed citizens who might also be in the same situation.

If the situation escalated, we'll we could play that game for pages .....

Personal-note: I'm usually ALWAYS with the kids and wife in Wal-mart so if that were the case, I'd still call 911, as I move my family as far away from the threat as possible, and I WOULD NOT go back in the store once outside. I'd get in my vehicle, and leave immediately while warning everyone I saw outside of the situation.


Nice job on this TDG too, I think people need to write this stuff down so they can really think out what they should do. Then get proper adive from some of the LEO's on the board too.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Being that I'm not an Official Law-man, I have no duty to automatically protect anyone but myself. HOWEVER!, I'm not one to stand by and let innocent civilians become the subjects of some loony-tunes mayhem.

Therefore I would take cover, call 911, and keep eyes on; not JUST the BG, but other possible armed citizens who might also be in the same situation.

If the situation escalated, we'll we could play that game for pages .....

Personal-note: I'm usually ALWAYS with the kids and wife in Wal-mart so if that were the case, I'd still call 911, as I move my family as far away from the threat as possible, and I WOULD NOT go back in the store once outside. I'd get in my vehicle, and leave immediately while warning everyone I saw outside of the situation.


Nice job on this TDG too, I think people need to write this stuff down so they can really think out what they should do. Then get proper adive from some of the LEO's on the board too.

Yep, family in tow definitely changes everything. Basically, it is a tactical retreat at that point.

 

[Witiku]

Ok. Who here since this thread, has been at WM and checked out the cover situation?

 

[oleheat]

It's not easy determining if someone is emotionally disturbed....I don't believe there is an immediate clear-cut right or wrong answer here- it depends more on what he is doing more than the fact that he is carrying a gun. Obviously, if he started screaming "I'm going to kill everyone in the store!!!!", that would more than likely change things- dramatically.

I would have to say like most others a combo of #1 & 2, based on the info presented. However, if after doing this he approached me in a threatening manner, that would likely result in action against him, because the main reason I carry a pistol is to stay alive.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Ok. Who here since this thread, has been at WM and checked out the cover situation?

LOL. I did that years ago. That is why I try to always check out in the express lane by the liqueur. I figured no crazy person would risk hitting a bottle of Taaka Vodka

 

[Witiku]

 

[Hitman]

it depends more on what he is doing more than the fact that he is carrying a gun. .

I think he might have been referring to the guy having the gun in his hand. Maybe?

That's the way I took it and answered under that assumption.

 

[oleheat]

I think he might have been referring to the guy having the gun in his hand. Maybe?

That's the way I took it and answered under that assumption.

Yeah, I'm sure that's what he meant.....

I once saw a guy cause a bit of a stir at a WM in Alabama when he tried to enter the building with a shotgun, and was stopped at the front door. He told the security guys- and a LEO- that he was only trying to find a guncase to fit it....! He was escorted to his pickup by the LEO, and was then allowed to MEASURE THE SHOTGUN WITH A TAPE MEASURE() and return to the store to try & find a case for it.

There's always the idiot factor....

 

[FishingBack]

I'm not one to stand by and let innocent civilians become the subjects of some loony-tunes mayhem.

I considered this until I remembered that I hate the average snaggle-toothed redneck with koolaid faced kids or the ghetto patrol that I normally see in wally world.