waterfowl shell question

[clem131]

i was strolling through Cabelas yesterday and i saw the new "blindside" shells by Winchester. my buddy i was with told me they had been out for a while but i guess i didn't get that memo. but i read that back of the box and i was interested enough to go home and do some research on it. the thing is that there is very little information on them. so if anyone has tried to them or better yet patterned them please let a brother know. but they more i read from Winchester the more i got confused. they say that they can fit more shot bc it stacks better. but isn't shot weighed? would it matter how it stacks bc a given # of pellets of a certain shot size weight the same no matter how it stacks or is it by volume? and if its by volume wouldn't this new heavy ass load be moving very slow?

 

[Xenon]

I think your answer is around the 1:30 mark. I've always been skeptical to the "gimmicks" of shells. Seems like it wouldn't fly straight, but I haven't tried it. I'm usually the cheap steel guy. Hasn't slowed me down yet

 

[cnodie1]

i was strolling through Cabelas yesterday and i saw the new "blindside" shells by Winchester. my buddy i was with told me they had been out for a while but i guess i didn't get that memo. but i read that back of the box and i was interested enough to go home and do some research on it. the thing is that there is very little information on them. so if anyone has tried to them or better yet patterned them please let a brother know. but they more i read from Winchester the more i got confused. they say that they can fit more shot bc it stacks better. but isn't shot weighed? would it matter how it stacks bc a given # of pellets of a certain shot size weight the same no matter how it stacks or is it by volume? and if its by volume wouldn't this new heavy ass load be moving very slow?

It's a gimmick to catch all the hunters who have to have the best of the best. Regular steel has been killing them fine since they outlawed lead.

 

[Hitman]

It took me two years of shooting and research to buy a new 3.5" Waterfowl Gun.
Results can be seen here. >CLICK ME<

During that time I shot a lot of guns whose owners were shooting a lot of different shells.

High-End Shells(BlackCloud/Blind-Side) are/can be worth their money(In Short). It's not just about the Hex-shot or flight stopper pellets(shot) but more so about quality. The quality of the entire shell. From Primer>Powder>WAD>Shot.

To help better understand, look at THIS CHART while thinking about Competition shooters.
(Speaking in 12 Ga.)

A lot of Comp shooters use 2¾" 1oz. #7½'s
Giving them close to 345 7½ pellets to hit the Clay Target with.

Now, on Game Day they use 2¾" 1¼-1⅜ oz. #8-#9(Depending on the Comp.)
Upping the pellet count to a minimum of 562 pellets to a maximum of 804 #9 pellets.

Now it's well circulated that the average Clay is broken by an average 10 pellets.
(Think about cleaning ducks. how many holes do you normally see? not many)

So competitors practice with 1oz. 7½'s forces you to be as accurate as you can. Going with 1⅜ oz. #8's gives you roughly 217 more pellets /by 10(avg. hit ratio to break clay) = 21.7 Thus giving you More of an Advantage in hitting the target on Game Day than practice. STILL a miss is a miss. You still have to apply all the other fundamentals of shooting and you still have to hit the target you're aiming at. HOWEVER! Where those extra pellets come into play is when you DON'T! When you don't apply the proper shoulder pressure, when you don't follow through, when you misplaced the stock in your shoulder just right. When you make those mental mistakes, having those extra 200+ pellets out there can mean the difference in a HIT or MISS.

Now if you understand what I'm trying to say above, then this next statement will put it all together.

Understanding the average impact of pellets to target,
wouldn't you want those few pellets that DO HIT to HIT HARD?

That's the point in these high end shells. To put more pellets on target at greater speed(Wad/Powder) and to ensure that those pellets that do hit, DO DAMAGE. Doesn't take a brainiac to understand that something smooth and round going through flesh does not cause the same amount of catastrophic damage as something not smooth and round.


Now, back to first hand experience.

YES! Re. 3" Steel Shot has been knocking them down for decades now and STILL DOES and will CONTINUE to do so. Mainly b/c accurate shooters or accurate shooters. Doesn't matter what's being shot. But that doesn't mean that they too can't benefit from these shells.

For example there are plenty of times where you will indeed hit a duck with reg. steel shot. Sometimes we even see the feathers but he still flys away. That happens A LOT LESS with High-End shells. Same applies to shooting Snows/Specks. I've seen farther shots fold up Specks like they were over the decoys from a shooter shooting BlindSide.

So, in theory and partial experience the kicker is this. Shooting High-end shells really changes the dynamics of your shooting some. Considering you just paid $25 a box. You're likely going to TAKE YOUR TIME and MAKE A BETTER SHOT. You won't be slinging shots out there like you're shooting cheap Estates b/c they only cost you $10. You'll try harder thus likely improving your shot. The waterfowl you do hit, are likely to go DOWN. Not just knocking the feathers off are wounding them.

Now think back to the Shell Design and Purpose.

So IMO, what I've seen is that shooting BlindSide,
kill more ducks,
have less misses
and shoot less shells.(Thus balancing the cost)

Make sense? Basically say you could shoot 2 boxes of cheaper shells in one hunt(5 man blind/30 ducks) you killed 7-9 birds. Happens to me all the time
Shooting BlindSide you may have not had to shoot a whole box to kill those same 7-9 birds.

Plus the Speed of these shells and how much of the shot is in them(Like the Comp. Clay shooters) matters a whole lot more too.

So there's my opinion on how the cost of these shells are justified by shooting less and killing more thus costing roughly the same if not less depending on your own ability.

The #1 reason High-End shells don't work is b/c mediocre shooters attempt to use them to fix their own shooting flaws. A below average shooter will not likely benefit from these shells, but a better than average shooter will very likely see an increase in kill ratio.

Hope all that makes sense.

….b/c in reality we’ve only scratched the surface of ‘Hit Accuracy’ considering we haven’t even started talking about chokes and didn’t mention 3½” shells either. …

 

[TomTerrific]

but they more i read from Winchester the more i got confused. they say that they can fit more shot bc it stacks better. but isn't shot weighed? would it matter how it stacks bc a given # of pellets of a certain shot size weight the same no matter how it stacks or is it by volume? and if its by volume wouldn't this new heavy ass load be moving very slow?

The bulk density, the amount of a material in a given volume counting air spaces and all, depends on the geometry of the material.

In shot, the material itself is uniform. It looks as if the shot you are talking about is spherical with the top and bottom lopped off. Think of it this way: You have tennis balls and a basket a foot in diameter and 18" high. Fill the basket. Then imagine a pancake shaped object the same diameter as the tennis balls and perhaps and half inch thick. Fill the basket with them. You will get a lot more, in numbers, in the basket. Same way with these scrunched spherical shot.

So, you get more shot in the shell and Hitman's analysis takes over. It's a really good explanation of what else is going on.

His basic point is that these high end shells aren't going to improve poor shooting skills. Well said, indeed.

 

[oleheat]

The #1 reason High-End shells don't work is b/c mediocre shooters attempt to use them to fix their own shooting flaws. A below average shooter will not likely benefit from these shells…

Heat

 

[Hitman]

 

[oleheat]

Every year, I get a Christmas Card from nearly every major waterfowl shell manufacturer.


I can't figure out why.

 

[Lafsnguy]

I've played around with a lot of different shells. The best for my money are the winchester supreme in the black box. One thing you can do is cut open one of the cheap shells such as winchester expert and a winchester supreme. The expert looks like it is filled with welding slag of all different sizes and shapes. The pellets aren't round and the wad is cardboard. The winchester supreme are all the same size with an actual wad. I patterned several and the winchester supreme patterned very well while the crap shells had all kinds of wholes in it where a duck could easily fit. I've always been of the opinion if you are going to spend all kinds of money on a boat, blind, decoys and gun you might as well spend a little on quality shells.

 

[fallingbird]

I've found that the high end shells are great for the "cripple kills" on the water. How many times have you dropped a duck hard, only to notice him waking up and swimming away? The steel doesn't seem to get the job done, and several shots add up.

 

[hoosiernative]

agree with the Winchester supreme blk box. good value, good components, shoots well

 

[Emperor]

Hitman! Well done!

JR would be proud of this thread!

 

[JR1572]

Hitman! Well done!

JR would be proud of this thread!

I am!

JR1572


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Emperor]

I am!

JR1572