Who do reloads get it wrong?

[kingfhb]

I've been around weapons... I've been around ammo... I've never used reloads (or at least not to my knowledge). My question is simply, why are reloads painted in a bad light? I am only asking that because I see mixed reviews. On one side, I see the re-loaders who stand by their loads... on the other I see those who just refuse to shoot reloads. I see those that benefit from them, and those who blame their crappy range day on them.

I am just wondering, are those that reload not doing something they should? Are they doing a half-a$$ job when reloading? Are there quality reloads out there or someone who can do the job? I mean, if you're replacing everything but the casing, why (other than not following guidelines for tolerances and measurements) wouldn't reloads perform the exact same as those loaded new in the box from the factory? Are some re-loaders cutting corners to save money? Skimping on a few powder grains here and there?

I was considering getting into reloading, not only just to cut some costs and produce my own ammo, but also more on a precision level... meaning being very meticulous and precise with weights, measurements, etc. to produce a quality reload (that more than likely I will be the one to send down range).

Is this a myth? Are reloads just as good if loaded properly? Just wondering and trying to get some feedback.

Thanks!

 

[Emperor]

I have a pallet with nothing but factory reloads on it. The only person that knows the difference is my best friend, Wally the wallet!

Other than a mental hang up for me, the only thing I would feel uneasy about would be reloads (factory or not), in my primary!

I do know that one of my buddys is into long range shooting and he is like a mad scientist when it comes to his bullets.

 

[DBMJR1]

My two cents worth.

There is a difference between handloads, and reloads.

Emperor's buddy handloads for accuracy.

I reload for convenience and cost.

I, as a rule, do not shoot anyone else's reloads, with one exception. A good friend who I've known, and shot next to for years.

I will not shoot factory reloads either.

The reason is that it is too easy to make a mistake that might cost me a firearm, or worse.

If you do decide to get into reloading, or handloading, be sure to develop good habits. Don't get distracted when tossing powder. Triple check new loading data before using it. Check each and every case for a double charge, or no charge at all.

 

[shroom14]

The two malfunctions i have had in my glock 17 in almost 25,000 rounds that wasn't due to operator error were reloads the casing was bowed out and wedged partially in the chamber. Dont know who loaded them i had bought them from the shooting range. It was enough to ruin my day having a live round stuck partially in the chamber so bad one person had to hold the slide another person hitting the pistol grip to try get it out.

 

[JadeRaven]

I have shot factory reloads and the experience has been sub-par. Actual duds that did not fire, as well as inconsistent recoil (from what I presume is inconsistent loading).

The very nature of every case being different, used, etc. leads to a necessary inconsistency in the product. Sure you can theoretically clean trim etc. every case to be identical, but as cost is at the heart of the reason for reloads, this doesn't happen with factory/commercial reloads.

Personally I don't shoot often enough for the cost to really add up, particularly in the calibers I shoot. If I wanted to save money, I would shoot new steel case which is often cheaper or similarly priced to reloads.

Reloading yourself is a whole other story. If you enjoy it, then great.

 

[Request Dust Off]

This is what can go bad.
Not chamber - FTF
Not fire - FTF
Failure to extract - FTE
Fire, but squib
Fire and overpressure, damage or explode firearm - Double charge or wrong powder or overcharge
Fire a squib and then follow with firing a good round.
Pierced primer or slam fire or fire out of battery
Case separation - bad case

Some of this can happen with non reloads as well. There are ways to combat some of the problems.

Where you save the most is on high end ammo. If you are trying to beat the price on the cheapest ammo you can find that is harder to do and may not be worth it.

Think of the ability to fine tune your loads as well. Load development is a big part of what you can gain for accurate rifle loads

 

[JadeRaven]

This is what can go bad.
Not chamber - FTF
Not fire - FTF
Failure to extract - FTE
Fire, but squib
Fire and overpressure, damage or explode firearm - Double charge or wrong powder or overcharge
Fire a squib and then follow with firing a good round.
Pierced primer or slam fire or fire out of battery
Case separation - bad case

Some of this can happen with non reloads as well. There are ways to combat some of the problems.

Where you save the most is on high end ammo. If you are trying to beat the price on the cheapest ammo you can find that is harder to do and may not be worth it.

Think of the ability to fine tune your loads as well. Load development is a big part of what you can gain for accurate rifle loads

Good post.

Yeah if you are buying or loading your own match loads, handloading/reloading definitely is appealing.

 

[altimar]

Reloading, especially bottle-neck rifle cartridges, is much more complex than most people realize. It can be very time-intensive and boringly repetitive. Trying to speed up the process increases the chances of making mistakes. Mistakes like no or too little powder can result in a squib load where the bullet does not leave the barrel. If another bullet is fired behind it, there will be a catastrophic failure and very likely an injury to the shooter. Too much powder can obviously simply rupture the case and blow the gun up. If you mix powders or use the wrong powder, similar devastating results. There can be other issues with seating the bullet too long or too short. Not seating the primers all the way can result in out of battery detonation. Rifle cases will eventually wear out and can fail, resulting in gun damage / injury.

I'm not trying to scare you away from it, but (even more so than firearms) reloading demands a great sense of responsibility and your full attention at all times. If you're not semi-OCD, I would not recommend it for you. That said, there are benefits, such as cost savings, though it is minimal for the most common cartridges and is less worth it if you value your time highly. Custom making your own ammo can greatly increase your precision, because every gun is different; if you take the time to try out different combinations (bullets / powders / COL) you will certainly find something that your gun likes better than factory ammo. Want to load some ammo that shoots softly for a first-time shooter? No problem.

If you are still interested, pick up a load manual and start reading and/or lurk in an active reloading forum (I like AR15.com's). Even better if you can get some lessons from an experienced reloader. One word of caution though, don't bother starting to reload if you are really just trying to save money. That won't happen, because you end up with two hobbies that literally feed each other.

As for "factory reloads", I have shot a few thousand pistol rounds w/o incident. I reload now, so I won't be buying any more, but I think if it's a reputable manufacturer, I wouldn't really have a problem recommending them for pistol rounds if they are significantly cheaper. Four cents per round cheaper than good factory ammo? Meh, no thanks. The biggest thing to watch out for those would probably be squibs. If something doesn't seem right, stop and check it out (with any ammo, really!).

Rifle factory reloads, being much more complex to get right (sizing, trimming, shorter case life, much higher operating pressures), seems like an invitation to disaster. I would never recommend them.

Gun show reloads? You know NOTHING about them or how competent the loader was. I'd rather play russian roulette!

 

[Gator 45/70]

I reload to get away from my wife...

Its good to have a shed!

 

[bsoileau24]

I reload to get away from my wife...

Its good to have a shed!

This!!!

 

[Jack]

So there are 3 different answers to this question, based on what kind of reloads we are talking about.

Quality factory reloads are g2g. Companies like freedom munitions have sold a lot of rounds and I haven't really read anything bad about their ammo. I'm sure they are doing it on such a large scale that they are essentially reloading on an industrial scale with equipment to match. I've personally shot a ton of their ammo and have never had an issue.

Smaller scale reloading operations are much more questionable. Companies reloading using dillon 1050's with auto drive systems and smaller would worry me. A powder check doesn't catch everything and at 1800 rounds an hour I doubt someone is eyeballing every round.

People reloading without being part of a company depends entirely on how much you trust the person making the rounds. I trust myself to check every round, I visually check the powder in every case before I put a bullet on it and have never had a double charge. I also know that reloading 223(the only rifle caliber I shoot) is much more complex than loading pistol and isn't much cheaper than shooting steel cased ammo. As such, it isn't worth it for me to do it. I do not shoot any other individuals reloads, I do not know what care they took in loading it and what equipment they were doing it with. If someone I trust started reloading, I probably wouldn't have an issue with it, because I trust them.

A few people have stated that it isn't a cost saving measure. I disagree with this. I started reloading on a square deal B and jumped to a dillon 1050(got an amazing price on it). I can reload 9mm for half the cost of new and at a rate of roughly 1000 rounds an hour. The break even point is pretty high with equipment like that, but if you shoot regularly enough you can save money doing it. Doing it faster costs more, so the break even is higher, but if you want a single stage and have all the time in the world, you can break even after a few cases.

 

[DBMJR1]

Oh, If you're reloading for pistol, you won't save any money. You WILL shoot a whole lot more though.

 

[JBP55]

I have read a few posts about shooters having problems with Freedom Munitions also.

 

[general mills]

I reload using a lee turret press. I find it cost effective, I reload .45acp and 9mm. The 9mm is barely cost effective, but when you already have the equipment, well......
The only real problem I have is about 1 out of every 300 or so rounds of .45 fail to feed in my Springfield mil-spec. Never had a factory load fail, I attribute it to the rim being a little dinged as I reload cases until I lose them or find them cracked, and I think sometimes they have a little trouble slipping into the extractor. When I started loading, I had a few low powered rounds, found the problem to be the lee powder measure (from the single stage press kit), I had to flick it every throw to get a consistent charge, switching powders helped. I had a batch of Winchester primers I bought that had a 1 out of 10 or so failure rate, very disappointing (I think they got wet or something before I bought them.) Besides these examples, pretty trouble free.

I find the consistency and accuracy to be equivalent to expensive high end ammo or better. Now that I have the process down, loads make very tight groups.

I guess, I would rather not trust my life to my reloads, but find them perfectly suitable for a cheaper practice and plinking ammunition.

 

[trigger643]

I generally stay clear of factory reloaded/remanufactured ammo with some exceptions like black hills. I stay clear of Bud and Bub selling reloads at gunshows they've assembled in their garage.

I do reload my own precision rifle rounds, namely: .243 AI, .308, .300WM and .338LM, as the consistency and accuracy I can achieve at my bench exceeds what I can get out of the box and the cost savings, especially on a round like .338LM is significant.

 

[capsix]

My question is simply, why are reloads painted in a bad light?
-That depends on who is doing the painting. Any topic will have its believers as well as naysayers.

I am just wondering, are those that reload not doing something they should?
-I would think (As I do with my own) that anyone who reloads, believes they are doing the right thing and doing everything they should be doing.
Are they doing a half-a$$ job when reloading?
-The fact that there are so many articles, videos and discussions about that, it would tend to lend credence that many are.
Are there quality reloads out there or someone who can do the job?
-There are several reputable companies that do an outstanding job, although they too are prone to mistakes as well. I stopped using one company I used to buy from when I had a case separate on me. They were very nice and sent me another box at no charge, but I lost confidence.
I mean, if you're replacing everything but the casing, why (other than not following guidelines for tolerances and measurements) wouldn't reloads perform the exact same as those loaded new in the box from the factory?
-Way too many variables, etc to go into. It is exactly that, you are replacing several things, powder, primer and bullet and each has multiple variables that can dictate success or failure. Not to mention the case that you are not replacing, it in and of itself has multiple issues to be taken into consideration.
Are some re-loaders cutting corners to save money?
-Of course there are,one would be a fool not to think so.
Skimping on a few powder grains here and there?
-It is not only skimping or cutting corners but the whole human factor---Mistakes are made, people get too confident or arrogant to see or admit that there methods are flawed, inconsistent or that they too are susceptible to the human factor. It can also be something that no one may have seen or even realized was going to cause a problem.

I was considering getting into reloading, not only just to cut some costs and produce my own ammo, but also more on a precision level... meaning being very meticulous and precise with weights, measurements, etc. to produce a quality reload (that more than likely I will be the one to send down range).

Is this a myth? Are reloads just as good if loaded properly? Just wondering and trying to get some feedback
**********************
I got into reloading and have not looked back. Take some time and watch some YouTube videos and lots of reading. You will see a very broad spectrum of reloaders with different techniques, methods, equipment, etc. You will also get to see plenty you would not want to mimic. Especially those that are trying to show you have fast their new Dillon can reload "x" amount of bullets in "x" amount of time and they are more interested in watching the camera than watching what is going on....did every case get powder,etc. You can also watch endless videos of those who paid the price for a mistake. I constantly tell myself, One mistake is all it takes. I have unloaded countless bullets when I was in doubt about something in that run of loading...."NOT FUN". I sort of equate it to a lot of other things.....professionals of all sorts do make mistakes and in some of those professions, All is takes is one time and you are done. If you have the opportunity to go and sit with someone that does reload, it would be of great benefit. Go and see for yourself how intricate some of the things are. I do not recall the exact measurements, but in some loads such as .40 S&W a very small change in the seating depth of your bullet can almost double the pressure....don't beat me up on the numbers but go and see how small the difference is between seating @ 1.135 and 1.125.....it is very hard to see with the naked eye but it makes a huge difference in the pressure.....it still amazes me how so little gun powder can do what it does.....see what 4 grains of powder is vs. what it does. Anyhow, I love reloading and have gotten very good loads for those guns for which I reload. My favorite being .223 for my AR's.

 

[Geauxfish]

I only shoot my own reloads. My dad was not a fan of reloads bc I think he had heard of some of the same issues you sort of brought up. That is reloaders not following good SAAMI specs or good habits. I agree that you should be borderline OCD when reloading and not have any distractions. Shooting my own does save dollars on some calibers, specifically 44 mag, 38 split and most rifle loads(excluding 5.56). But, as posted above, reloading allows me to work up a load for a specific weapon .

 

[Gus McCrae]

I load to get the right round for a particular gun. Also, I load for .45 Colt. Ever price that round?

 

[dad-e-o]

I am, for the most part, a shotgunner. I tend to like the 16 and 28 gauges and they are either hard to find, expensive, and most of the time both. For ducks/geese I shoot bismuth in 3" 12ga. Most of my guns are older and reloading gives me the opportunity to configure a shell to fit the situation such as lower recoil for clay shooting and the best patterns for clays, and waterfowl.

I do not let others shoot my reloads. If there should be a squib load, I would want to be the one shooting it. I have seen other reloaders forget to put powder in their shell or have a bad primer and have the wad stick in the barrel. Luckily they both were aware enough that something was not right and did not shoot again until the barrel was cleared, but, in the excitement of the hunt.... things could be different.

I do not take any of my recipes off the internet unless they are from a powder manufacturer. I want something that has been worked through already and that has been pressure tested and proofed for my guns.

Just my 2 cents,
Dad

 

[Request Dust Off]

Dad-e-o,
I usually think of reloading shotshells as a whole nother ballgame compared to rifle/pistol. I think it is good to make a point that most of us are not even thinking shotshell when giving advice. I have a 12ga press but have not done them in about 30 years. I did enjoy it at the time though.