LSU's steps to being safer?

[dirty dan]

Really embarrassing to see so many people here claim to support the second amendment but blatantly walk all over it.

Exactly. It's amazing that some members here demand the right to protect themselves with firearms and at the same time want to deny that same (God given) right to students that are legally just as qualified to carry. What a bunch of hypocrites.

 

[AustinBR]

Exactly. It's amazing that some members here demand the right to protect themselves with firearms and at the same time want to deny that same (God given) right to students that are legally just as qualified to carry. What a bunch of hypocrites.

It's not that though. It's looking at it from a practical approach. I am a current LSU student. I would not want most of my fellow classmates to be armed. People argue all the time and get into little shuffles. It just wouldn't be safe. Most are not mature enough. Having a clause where you need advanced training to carry on campus would be better, but even then, think about how bad that could make a situation if something for hairy.

--Sent From My Galaxy S6

 

[MOTOR51]

Exactly. It's amazing that some members here demand the right to protect themselves with firearms and at the same time want to deny that same (God given) right to students that are legally just as qualified to carry. What a bunch of hypocrites.

Why is it a "God given " right to carry wherever you want?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MOTOR51]

i'm seeing a class of 25 adult students. a wack job walks in and starts firing. he shots 3-4 people. the other in the classroom, scramble for their weapons, in their bag, or their side holster, to return fire.Other students, in the vicinity hears the gunshot and draw guns. Some of the would be rambo and run towards the gunfight, some stand around scare / nervous, with gun in hand, and a few wanna be navy seals, are going to their vehicles
for the 556 or 7.62.

Could you imagine being LE, driving into this scenario?
What if there was no shooting, just an escalated altercation? one draws a gun, many will draw.

I'm pro gun, but an environment, where 60% of 25,000 people are carrying guns is scary (LSU enrollment is 25,000 PEOPLE!!!!)
too many variables and way too many people.

Be cautious in what you ask for. Not all legal gun owners, should own guns, and you would also be giving them permission to carry in school.

Many schools are a financial institution. armed guards, and weapon scanning technology would be preventative measures. not re-active

Some people on here do not care about this very valid scenario. I have been trying to make that point on many different occasions but it's all or nothing around here. Hell, tombstone even had rules on carrying based on common sense and the situation in the town and that was the Wild West lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[alpinehyperlite]

Why is it a "God given " right to carry wherever you want?


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It amazes me that people still use this term when so many are SCREAMING for the separation of church and state.

On another note.......... Muslim Extremists claim that it is their "God given right and god given duty to kill infidels".

 

[ta2d_cop]

Austin, raindrops, motor and alpine are all right. In raindrops scenario it would be pure chaos. If you are in the mix without a badge or uniform you are a target and getting engaged by responding officers if you are holding a gun. What then for you "God given" hero types?

The maturity and common sense level here is about on par with your average American university campus based on the vast majorities of posts on here.

And while we're at it your "hero" Chris whatever his ****ing name is is nothing more than a man who did what he had to do to try and survive. He isn't a hero, he's just a guy that didn't want to die. First he charged the shooter and got shot. Then he cried and begged for his life on his kids birthday and got shot some more. Then the cops (who he hates like most of you) came and saved his sorry ass. If he was such a rebel hero awesomeness cool guy he would have been carrying **** the concequences. He's just another self entitled, boo hoo bitch ass post-surge GWOT vet that thinks he did something special cause he deployed and people owe him something cause he has PTSD. Not all f us but we all know the type. Hipster douche beard smoking weed asking everyone if they served looking for the opertunity to rub it in everyone's face. Boo ****ing hoo. Join the club, man the **** up and slay your demons instead of using them as an excuse to be a douche bag. And yes I deployed. I am a vet. 0 sympathy. 0 ****s. You think you are better cause you served? man the **** up and earn your free Vets day meal. Nobody owes you **** for what you did. If you think you do then shame on you. You didn't get spit on en mass. You didn't get called baby killer en mass. You didn't get drafted. You chose to serve WHILE 2 WARS WERE GOING ON! What the **** did you think was gonna happen? Rant over.

 

[Saintsfan6]

There could be terrible consequences to allowing students to carry on campus without restrictions. Having advanced training (paid for by the school) would be something I could get behind. I am not for denying anyone their rights, but only to allow for a uniformed and well planned response to an active shooter. If the campus PD/local LEA are on the same page with the trained, armed civilians, then this could potentially save lives while not adding to the chaos that an active shooter scenario would already be causing.

CHP holders would be a starting point to arm civilians on campus but active shooter situation are much more complex and dynamic than a typical situation that requires use of deadly force in self defense. I don't know if I would vote for a law that allowed everyone to open carry on a college campus either, it seems it could cause much more problems than solutions. I am a 2A advocate as much as anyone here, but I also believe there is situations where it is the right call to restrict firearms (a bar or football game for example).

Allowing students to be targets for these whackos while refusing them the right to defend themselves is wrong. Expecting innocent people to hide, cower, plea, run, play dead, etc while waiting for someone to show up that is allowed to have a firearm is wrong. That said, the solution isn't open carry on campus IMO.

 

[madwabbit]

The issue is simply that blanket policies do not work. There are perfectly reasonable arguments from either side of this fence if you only argue the extreme. No one ever gets a gun is equally as absurd as everyone always gets a gun. I'm not a politician, but I hope men far wiser and more experienced than I are looking for proactive solutions because the "lock the door and pray" mentality isn't going to do anything but get your kids shot in the face.

I personally think the immediate issue is lack of correct training for the faculty. Perhaps if they can be made to see their options on the table, their paradigm regarding weapons as tools may shift. You should see the difference between a trained staff and an untrained one in terms of response and demeanor. It's ...well, like anything else in life... Proper doses of professional training goes a long, long way. I asked the asst. in the liberal arts dept at an acadiana university what the protocol is if they hear gunshots - she stared at me blankly and said "i call the security office so they can call 911..." I couldn't help but smirk as she realized how stupid she sounded. two local campuses are under contract for a thorough training program ...next month-ish. I'll be interested to inquire as to their mentality regarding firearm policies afterwards.

I'm of the opinion that the best step forward is for CITIZENS (gun owners or not) to demand immediate discussion regarding the lack of political attention to this trend of violence. The gun free thing isn't working, so lets find plan B. That may well be the first patch of grey area in which liberals and conservatives can stand together.... until solutions are proposed, anyway.


ta2d - No one's calling the guy john rambo. The point is he wasn't oblivious to handgun fundamentals and probably (I'd bet on it) would have popped off a few rounds had he had the dang thing with him. (separate rant. draw conclusions) I threw the situation (and embellished) in the face of a group of idiot liberals arguing that no one in college could possibly be trained, no one would fight anyway, etc. These people are sheep and think like sheep, it doesn't hurt them to expose them to situations that immediately refute their ignorant theories.


edit:


I think dissuading any reasonably qualified person from carrying is very bad form. Lets pretend: Are there people that we could arm and send back into a random classroom in VA tech that would have made a difference? Sure. Did it have to be a decorated military officer? A career cop? Hell no. It could have been anyone experienced, educated, and mature enough to properly carry and operate a firearm. If they have force on force or stress training, all the better, but I wouldn't say they'd be required. The goal is to stop the shooters and discourage future events. Consider for a moment that none of the active shooters on the top of your head occurred in a gang infested inner-city school. I argue that a shooter wouldn't get far, and none of them were trained by <insert your favorite para-professional here>. The shooter knows its not a sitting duck target - its a mentality thing.

 

[Hattrick 22]

Really embarrassing to see so many people here claim to support the second amendment but blatantly walk all over it.

Yeah no **** eh lol.

The gun community is in bad shape. It seems so wishy washy here now.

Compare it to people that think they are good drivers normally everyone thinks they are better than others they ride with and even think this person got a driver's license maybe they need more training etc. I hope and look forward to the day of constitutional carry. Those that think they are better or apply stipulations are slowly being converted by terms like gun control.

 

[madwabbit]

It amazes me that people still use this term when so many are SCREAMING for the separation of church and state.

On another note.......... Muslim Extremists claim that it is their "God given right and god given duty to kill infidels".

thats the best argument for "God Given Right" that I've ever heard.


...now gtfo and stop rubbing your amazing jeep in my face.

 

[Rainsdrops]

I'm on they fence. I don't believe in government gun control but I also know that everyone aren't responsible gun owners.
I want a fighting chance, just as much as the next guy but let's look at LE numbers. 25000 enrollment. That's a possibility of 12000 guns on campus if only 50% of the students carry.. If I were a student, faculty, or LE. I wouldn't like that number.
The biggest cause of gun violence is ****ed up people.
If 3% of enrollment is ****ed up, that's 360.
Imagine visiting the mall of louisiana knowing that 12000 people could be carrying at any given moment.
I know it's a double edge sword, everyone has the right to bear arms. But i repeat everyone isn't a responsible gun owner

 

[whitsend]

The issue is simply that blanket policies do not work. There are perfectly reasonable arguments from either side of this fence if you only argue the extreme. No one ever gets a gun is equally as absurd as everyone always gets a gun. I'm not a politician, but I hope men far wiser and more experienced than I are looking for proactive solutions because the "lock the door and pray" mentality isn't going to do anything but get your kids shot in the face.

I personally think the immediate issue is lack of correct training for the faculty. Perhaps if they can be made to see their options on the table, their paradigm regarding weapons as tools may shift. You should see the difference between a trained staff and an untrained one in terms of response and demeanor. It's ...well, like anything else in life... Proper doses of professional training goes a long, long way. I asked the asst. in the liberal arts dept at an acadiana university what the protocol is if they hear gunshots - she stared at me blankly and said "i call the security office so they can call 911..." I couldn't help but smirk as she realized how stupid she sounded. two local campuses are under contract for a thorough training program ...next month-ish. I'll be interested to inquire as to their mentality regarding firearm policies afterwards.

I'm of the opinion that the best step forward is for CITIZENS (gun owners or not) to demand immediate discussion regarding the lack of political attention to this trend of violence. The gun free thing isn't working, so lets find plan B. That may well be the first patch of grey area in which liberals and conservatives can stand together.... until solutions are proposed, anyway.


ta2d - No one's calling the guy john rambo. The point is he wasn't oblivious to handgun fundamentals and probably (I'd bet on it) would have popped off a few rounds had he had the dang thing with him. (separate rant. draw conclusions) I threw the situation (and embellished) in the face of a group of idiot liberals arguing that no one in college could possibly be trained, no one would fight anyway, etc. These people are sheep and think like sheep, it doesn't hurt them to expose them to situations that immediately refute their ignorant theories.


edit:


I think dissuading any reasonably qualified person from carrying is very bad form. Lets pretend: Are there people that we could arm and send back into a random classroom in VA tech that would have made a difference? Sure. Did it have to be a decorated military officer? A career cop? Hell no. It could have been anyone experienced, educated, and mature enough to properly carry and operate a firearm. If they have force on force or stress training, all the better, but I wouldn't say they'd be required. The goal is to stop the shooters and discourage future events. Consider for a moment that none of the active shooters on the top of your head occurred in a gang infested inner-city school. I argue that a shooter wouldn't get far, and none of them were trained by <insert your favorite para-professional here>. The shooter knows its not a sitting duck target - its a mentality thing.

+1

 

[sliguns]

2nd Amendment - "You shall have the Unalienable Right to bear arms...Psych! Technically, you only have the alienable right to bear arms...and only in situations and places where the majority of voters feel it's safe enough...or where you get gov't permission...or until you are like maybe a responsible non-college student. This is the 2nd Amendment, which is all for gun ownerships and stuff, but not really."

USA! USA! USA!

 

[sliguns]

It amazes me that people still use this term when so many are SCREAMING for the separation of church and state.

I'm assuming most people use the "God-given" label due to the Declaration of Independence line of - "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator" - However, the difference is in terminology only but not in application since Creation necessitates a god.

 

[sliguns]

Why is it a "God given " right to carry wherever you want?

This seems to be a misrepresentation of what some are advocating here.

I'm not sure anyone here is advocating the "God given right to carry wherever you want", since most here understand and advocate for private property rights.

 

[Hattrick 22]

The thing I can't wrap my head around is that some are condemning it before it is even given a chance/treat people in general as though they are second class citizens.

Maybe some misguided superiority complex?

 

[Emperor]

Though I can only imagine (or read the police reports and eye witness accounts), of what transpires in a campus shooting; I don't think I would agree that an active shooter will be hard to spot. After all, Example A (Gun free zone), if I am in a classroom of say 20 people, and a nut walks through the door with gun or guns in hand, and either announces he is about to start killing people or silently starts shooting. If I am not one of the first people targeted/hit; I think it's pretty obvious this whacko is "murdering" people. If I am armed, I have at least a chance to defend myself when he walks up to me, or if I chose, try to take him out. May not work out for me, but; "A coin can land heads or tails, but only if tossed!"

Now lets try this same scenario in another place.

Example B (Free people zone), If I am in a restaurant of say 20 people, and a nut walks through the door with gun or guns in hand, and either announces he is about to start killing people or silently starts shooting. If I am not one of the first people targeted/hit; I think it's pretty obvious this whacko is "murdering" people. If I am armed, I have at least a chance to defend myself when he walks up to me, or if I chose, try to take him out. May not work out for me, but; "A coin can land heads or tails, but only if tossed!"

Conclusion: Same result; just different locations.

What makes me (collectively), any less responsible at a school than at an Arby's?

I vote for the Constitution first and foremost! It would be different if the phony's got their hands on every copy of every writing the Forefathers sent to each other concerning exactly what they meant for the 2nd Amendment, before the internet came along; but they didn't. It is clear that they knew there would be a time, or at least several attempts over time, to water down the strength of it.

 

[whitsend]

Correct me if I'm getting this wrong but some of you seem to think that if an active shooter situation happened on a college campus that allowed concealed carry permit holders to carry on campus that those permit holders would respond inappropriately and cause more confusion.

But historically what has happened in that exact situation?
What are you using as a basis for this conclusion?

 

[DAVE_M]

Correct me if I'm getting this wrong but some of you seem to think that if an active shooter situation happened on a college campus that allowed concealed carry permit holders to carry on campus that those permit holders would respond inappropriately and cause more confusion.

But historically what has happened in that exact situation?
What are you using as a basis for this conclusion?

Logic.

If I were in an adjacent building to an active shooter situation while I was carrying, I would happily be selfish and try to escape while helping as many as possible escape. I'm not LEO, so it's not my job to stop the shooter. I recognize that it could become a far worse situation if I become involved. I don't want to be the hero, I want to live.

That being said, I've spoken with many non-LEO CHP holders that feel compelled to stop the threat, regardless if they have the skills to do so.

 

[whitsend]

Colleges are too crowded to safely allow the carry of concealed weapons.

Colleges are no more crowded than movie theaters, office buildings, shopping malls, and numerous other locations where concealed handgun license holders are already allowed to carry concealed handguns. The widespread passage of shall-issue concealed carry laws has not led to spates of shootings or gun thefts at those locations.

http://concealedcampus.org/common-arguments/