FN FiveSeven USG 5.7X28 Your Comments

[G0FA57ORG0H0ME]

Hi

Does anyone own one of these pistols that would be willing to share their thoughts or some feedback?
Thanks
S.

Since the majority of those that responded to your question do not own this firearm and still felt compelled to make comments about it which unsurprisingly bordered on comical, I will respond.

The Five-seveN pistol is the lightest, highest capacity pistol you will probably ever fire. It has a huge muzzle blast, is as loud as a 10mm, and always gets attention at the range. While the factory ammo doesn't tap the full potential of the Five-seveN, it has proven to be more than enough to take down humans as well as medium-sized game. Recoil is quite a bit less than 9mm, 5.7 ammo weighs 50% less than 9mm, and with an inch and a half mag extension you can have 31 shots at your disposal. Making fast, accurate follow up shots is the Five-seveN's ace in the hole. And by fast I mean 6 shots in .5 seconds fast. I would like to see you do that with any other common defensive caliber pistol in existence - and hit what you are shooting at.

Someone mentioned an old FBI test where outdated and discontinued ammo was shown to offer less than optimal penetration. That's very, very old news so I would advise not regurgitating it less you look silly to those of us that are informed. There are numerous 5.7x28mm loads currently available that penetrate 12+ inches in ballistic gelatin. For example, this random handload expanded and penetrated 14-15 inches in three tests done by Brassfetcher in calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin:

Considering FN limits the power of factory ammo because of its armor-penetrating characteristics and all the "Cop-Killer" hub-bub, aftermarket ammo is where the 5.7 really shines. You can buy 5.7 ammo that reaches 405 ft-lbs and 2,600 fps out of the pistol or 670 ft-lbs and 3,400 fps out of the PS90. That ain't your grandaddy's 22WMR.. I carry my Five-seveN concealed and loaded with S4M. A little info about the S4M round:

It was the general opinion of three physicians-two military surgeons with oversea deployment and a trauma surgeon who operated on roughly a thousand gunshot wounds, that nobody could survive an S4 torso hit unless it took place right in the operating room- and even then it would be at best a toss up." -Dr. JD Brown

As tested, both 5.7x28mm cartridges offer lethality that is on par with or slightly greater than a .45ACP 230gr jacketed hollowpoint. This is accomplished through an intelligent usage of the pitch/yaw cycle inherent to any spin-stabilized projectile – the nose of the 5.7mm bullets travel through the first 2” of ballistic gelatin in a nose-forward orientation, which minimizes drag. As such, the very impressive amount of kinetic energy lost by most expanding bullets in the first few inches of penetration have little or no effect on the human target and actually decreases the effectiveness of expanding ammunition in incapacitating a target.

Conversely, the FN SS-195 and the Elite Ammunition S4M offer performance quite similar to the tested .45ACP, with considerably lower recoil and ammunition weight, coupled with a significantly higher weapon magazine capacity. We feel that the Elite Ammunition S4M can be seen as a “+P” version of the very effective 27gr 5.7mm FMJ and we have no qualms about recommending this cartridge as a feasible replacement to the more conventional .45ACP handgun, for use against human attackers. -Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

Since pictures are worth a thousand words, and no discussion of terminal ballistics is complete without something being terminal, have a look at some animals that were released from their corporal existence thanks to the Five-seveN pistol.

The 160-pound hog in the first two pictures was dropped with one round of SS197SR (not sure about the hog in the third picture).

The 182-pound deer in the last picture was dropped from 70 meters with one round of SS197SR through the lungs/heart.




More hunting data...

okay. saw no hogs in texas. (and i thought they had a problem with hogs....only problem i had was i saw no hogs.

anyhow Rifle season for deer opened up on sat. i was working so i missed sat but i made it out on sunday. nada. well monday was the charm.

i got a medium doe with my PS90. 35-45 yards away. used SS197. shot her in the chest. double lung. she walked 10-15 paced and that was it. i found the round just under the skin on the opposite side. it had also passed through her shoulder. it missed her ribs and other bones as far as i can tell right now

then as i was cleaning her, a medium buck walked by. i used my new (got it friday the 18th) Colt 45 special combat govt. i used my reloads. 230gr JHP rounds. he was 30-40 yards away. again, a double lung shot. he walked about 12-15 paces and died.

i could not believe that while i was cleaning one another walked on by.

now for the fun part. i have not found the 45 acp round yet. it passes through and may have hit the flat part of his shoulder. i found a very small exit hole in his outer fur. the holes on the inside of the rib cage were not all that big.

the 5.7x28 round was a different story. it passes through the body cavity and through the muscle of her shoulder. it stopped just below the skin/fur. the hole on both sides of the rib cage were 2-3 times bigger than the 45acp holes. the 5.7 round holes were probably like 2-2.5 inches in diameter. i shot a couple of quick snaps and used a quarter for size. the holes are 9 o'clock in one photo and 11 o'clock in another...between the ribs

photos here: http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1020723

i found three pieces of the SS197 round. i found all three pieces in roughly the same spot.

a very interesting day. i will get more photos after we get the skins off. i will get better measurements and see if i can find the 45 round.

please see these photos for the measurements of the 3 pieces from the 5.7 round. http://photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1020723

eddie

Here are a few more accounts of the 5.7 used against game:

I love my 5.7, and It makes a great carry gun for hiking as it is light and I can carry it and 60 rounds that weighs less than one loaded 1911 with 8 rounds. My old man took a coyote out with one in the yard and it put a hole out the other side of the chest the size of a cantaloupe (It was an oblique shot no less).

I'd really like to see just one topic that celebrates this unique cartridge instead of calling it a novelty. I trust my five seven as much or more than any of my other firearms. It has jammed exactly as many times as my S&W 686 (that's a revolver kids).

Two weeks ago I came across a half dead deer on the side of the road, coming home from the range. I used the five seven to put the poor thing down, and the head/neck wound was probably the most gore I have ever seen besides fresh roadkill. I have no doubts to the lethallity of this caliber, seeing as one round of SS197 made such a graphic fatal wound on a living animal, where a round nosed bullet from the same distance could have potentially bounced off the skull.

Lightweight, very dependable, low recoil, high capacity, accurate, low maintainence and very easy field stripping. How are these bad things?

I've killed 2 (medium-sized hogs), and with both I put several rounds of ss192 (this is the hollow-point round that tumbles and does not fragment like the SS197) into them. Not sure how many it actually would have taken to kill them, but they were dead when I walked up.

The first one I shot I hit 2 times right off the bat,(straight into the side) missed with 2 and then put about 4 more in. It was not moving away from me after the first 2 (it was moving in kind of a circular out of control movement), but I was rapid firing so I killed dirt with shots 3 and 4. Shots 5-8 were all over it

The 2nd hog was a headshot (from the side) with round one and the next 4 were all hits in the side and then belly. It didn't move after the first shot.

These were both medium sized ferral hogs shot at dusk using the laser and the light on the M6. I normally hunt with a Russian Nagan and a .45 Baby Eagle. The weekend I got these I had forgotten my Nagant ammo so decided to try something different. Glad I did...It was a freaking blast to hunt hogs this way.


I always laugh when people badmouth the Five-seveN.... I have seen what it does to flesh, and it's definitly something to have respect for. The cool thing is I have also shot squirrel with it and it just leaves a little hole with ss192. A gun that you can realistically hunt hog and squirrel with is one kick ass gun indeed.

Now, some are curious as to the wound pattern. In the Squirrels, it's just a 5.7 hole straight through. In the hogs broadside it's a small entrance hole and a nasty cavity, but as you would expect the round stays in. How deep depends on what it hit. I didn't get exactly surgical so I can only tell you that the couple we looked at (one we actually cut open which unfortunatly for me was a gutshot that was just ugly as hell) were pretty impressive and about what you would expect from a .223 really. Honestly, in larger animals it ends up similar to, but below a .223, but the round stays amazingly unhurt. I actually have one round that was inside one of the hogs that we picked up a few months later in the spot where it rotted and aside from the rifleing it looks like you could stick it back in a shell and refire it.

I went out into the South Dakota wilderness this morning to shoot some of my 35 and 40 grain reloads (all functioned PERFECTLY with no failures of any kind with brass trimmed to 1.128 and 6.5 grn of HS-6 [OAL on the 35 - 1.46, 40grn 1.58])

Interesting though, as I was walking the 2+ miles back to my truck I stepped in a hole and sank up to my calf. The ground felt kind of strange and started to move. Something seemed to bite into my sole. Sensing that something was TERRIBLY wrong I pulled my foot out of my boot just in time to watch something furry and loud pull my boot underground.

I went to the hole and was rushed by a 20 lb badger. I opened up with the 5-7. First round took the top of the skull off. I dug out the hole and found several more badgers. I shot them all in the hole (SD law alows Badgers and other varmits/predators to be shot essentially at will) and then cut them open to see the damage.

It looked like a bomb went off in them. To see what a .45 +P+ would do, I shot one in the flesh around the shoulder. Blew it out the back. However the wound channel was not as impressive as with the 35 & 40 V-Max, probably because the badger was not thick enough for the 230grn hollowpoint to expand enough. The .45 just made a really clean hole through and through. I was unable to find much of either weight V-Max (just little pieces here and there, most still in the badger, depending on angle of entry).

In my opinion I think this round has GREAT possibilities for varmiting. I can't wait for the rifles to come out for it.

"looked like a bomb went off"

That's what the gutshot in the hog looked like. It was just nasty...everything was mushy and shredded.

Some asked about stopping power. Last winter, a 1200 pound moose cow was hit by a car,she was still standing up but had a broken leg. No way would she survive. State Troopers or Fish & Feather usually put the moose down. The Troopers were going to be busy for the next couple hrs,I couldn't see the moose suffering that long. I was able to drop the moose with one shot and fired a second shot once down to make sure she was down for good. I was surprised the moose went down on the first shot and I'm pretty sure she was dead before firing the second round.

I now feel comfortable enough to carry my Five Seven full time.

This bit of info isn't about hunting but does offer some more data on the round that a lot of people have had success hunting with - the SS197 V-Max.

I have recently been seriously debating adopting this as a carry weapon. Obvious problem - this round has very very little documented real world data in self defense shootings. There are those that claim it is nothing more than a .22 Magnum. After extensive study and some tests of my own, I have concluded, quintessentially, that this simply isn't true and the sheer velocity of the round and its design to tumble and perform in that way similar to the 5.56x45 NATO (.223) round does infact make this cartridge at least potent enough to consider for real world self defense applications. Even so, I am not yet COMPLETELY convinced that I should trade out the tried and proven .45 acp for this. I would like the opinions and views of the Stormfront "gun-people" community on this, heh.
I will outline my test here - 5 frozen gallon jugs of water at approximately 8 meters distance. Shot with 158 gr. 38 special, 124 gr 9x19mm, 180 gr. 40S&W, and lastly 40 gr SS197 5.7x28mm.
.38 spc. - passed through with very little visible shock and basically a single channel
9mm - through with a decent amount of shock
.40 - rather serious amount of visible shock and large exit hole
5.7 - I wish I has photographed it. Essentially, complete devastation from shock of nearly the entire block could be seen. Unlike any of the other rounds.

 

[Sin-ster]

I stopped at "6 shots in .5 seconds".

So you claim aimed .08 splits, with perfect hits?

Ignoring the fact that there's no range specified and the factory sights on that pistol aren't anything to write home about-- I'm gonna call BS on pure speed of trigger pull alone. There are *extremely* few people on the planet who can claim that feat-- with full blown competition triggers that are designed expressly for that purpose. Unlike that found on the FN Five-seveN.

Is it possible to do once, without trigger freeze? Perhaps-- but very unlikely. Possible to do consistently? I'd lay 100:1 that it's not. And the person who could make that claim has spent a FORTUNE in ammunition for practice. For reference, the cyclic rate of the P90 is right about 900 RPM. The M16 is right around 750-- which is what you're claiming when you say "6 shots in .5 seconds".

So... No.

 

[Skiney]

Hummm
Seems like a good pistola to me:}

 

[Dave328]

Well that does it. I'm selling everything I own and buying a FN 57. It has now been truly proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that it is the most amazing handgun ever to have been created!

 

[Skiney]

Cool................PM me with what your selling so I can have first choice ok?

 

[G0FA57ORG0H0ME]

I stopped at "6 shots in .5 seconds".

So you claim aimed .08 splits, with perfect hits?

Ignoring the fact that there's no range specified and the factory sights on that pistol aren't anything to write home about-- I'm gonna call BS on pure speed of trigger pull alone. There are *extremely* few people on the planet who can claim that feat-- with full blown competition triggers that are designed expressly for that purpose. Unlike that found on the FN Five-seveN.

Is it possible to do once, without trigger freeze? Perhaps-- but very unlikely. Possible to do consistently? I'd lay 100:1 that it's not. And the person who could make that claim has spent a FORTUNE in ammunition for practice. For reference, the cyclic rate of the P90 is right about 900 RPM. The M16 is right around 750-- which is what you're claiming when you say "6 shots in .5 seconds".

So... No.

If you can't handle the sales pitch, just skip to the end of the video for 6 shots in .51 seconds. I didn't join this forum to spread B.S about the Five-seveN., I joined to spread facts about the Five-seveN. It is a very exciting, high-tech pistol that generates a lot of insane and crazy comments from those that don't understand the platform. It's fun to join a forum and dispel all the myths.

 

[G0FA57ORG0H0ME]

Well that does it. I'm selling everything I own and buying a FN 57. It has now been truly proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that it is the most amazing handgun ever to have been created!

Exaggerations like these reveal an insecurity over the issue. The Five-seveN does have a lot of advantages that other pistols don't have namely; capacity, low recoil, flat-shooting, armor penetration, light weight, etc. But it is no miracle gun and doesn't replace any of the other common self-defensive platforms out there. There's plenty of ways to skin a cat (or hog), the Five-seveN is just one more way.

 

[dwr461]

Yes a 22 WMR can be used to take larger game. So can the 5.7. Shot placement is just more important. Sorry I'm a bullet mass over velocity kind of guy.

Dave

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I do not know of a single person who is informed and who shoots people for a living who carrys a 5.7 handgun. If the FBI Test was bunk then somebody should tell the Ammo Industry who released BJHP ammo largely in response to poor JHP performance in those test. If 5.7 was the lightning in a bottle you portray it as then it wouldn't be a way it would be the way. It ain't. Have fun with your snake oil.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

You dropped that deer from 70M with a single shot, from the iron sighted pistol in the picture? Plinky is that you?

 

[JWG223]

Elite Ammo...they would not submit ammo to MD Roberts for testing last time I spoke with him, and that Ryan guy up there who I spoke with, well, he was a fraud and he ran off and noone can find him now. Sorry if I just don't buy into EA's claims anymore.

One of the other outspoken proponents on the 5.7 forum was a crooked cop who was selling department ordered LE marketed ammo (SS198, IIRC) on the open market at a healthy profit. That had the kibosh put on it and noone heard from him anymore.

As to your "You can't shoot other calibers quick/accurately". Well, that's right, at least, not without proper and regular training/practice. However, I would say this individual with a .45 ACP isn't too sluggish with his follow-ups.

The one and only thing that EA does have in the 5.7 (which they won't sell you, but you can easily load yourself) is a round that will go through 3-4 Class II vests like butter. Your 9mm and .45 won't be pulling that off any time soon.

 

[JWG223]

I do not know of a single person who is informed and who shoots people for a living who carrys a 5.7 handgun. If the FBI Test was bunk then somebody should tell the Ammo Industry who released BJHP ammo largely in response to poor JHP performance in those test. If 5.7 was the lightning in a bottle you portray it as then it wouldn't be a way it would be the way. It ain't. Have fun with your snake oil.

Some PD's issued it when it first came out. Almost all of them have now removed it from service due to lack-luster performance on the job.

 

[JBP55]

There is ammunition made for 9mm and other calibers that will penetrate ballistic vests very well.
Being able to purchase it is another matter.

 

[BAYOU922]

You dropped that deer from 70M with a single shot, from the iron sighted pistol in the picture?

There's a red dot sight on the pistol in that photo.

Elite Ammo...they would not submit ammo to MD Roberts for testing last time I spoke with him

It's not the least bit surprising that EA is not interested in giving the almighty dentist (Dr. Roberts, DDS) free ammo to test. He is rabidly opposed to the 5.7x28mm caliber even though he hasn't tested any of the 5.7x28mm loads introduced in the last 20 years. That alone speaks volumes on his credibility and impartiality (or lack thereof). Virtually everything he has posted on this topic is recycled internet hearsay.

Two days after the Fort Hood shooting occurred, this same individual was already touting the early media reports that said the killer was stopped by a female police officer who had been shot with 5.7x28mm rounds.

Of course, we now know that the early news reports were inaccurate and that is not what actually happened; despite her bravery, the female police officer in question was incapacitated (and nearly died) from a hit to the leg, and the killer was actually stopped by a second (male) police officer while she was lying on the ground severely wounded. Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_hood_shooting

and

http://sgtmunley.blogspot.com/

I was given a second chance at life. I was also fortunate to not lose my leg. The awesome surgeons were able to do an arterial graph and repair my femoral artery. But for a couple of days, there were unsure about the outcome and if I was going to be able to keep my leg at all.

I stay in a lot of pain because the bottom of my femor is blown into hundreds of bone fragments that are pushed into my muscle tissue and until the surgery, they will not be removed.


http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20091202/articles/912029944

Sgt. Kim Munley, who helped stop the shooter Nov. 5 at Fort Hood, Texas, will have to get an artificial knee, which means she will not be able to return to street patrol duty.


http://www.kasa.com/dpps/military/army/Fort-Hood-hero-faces-more-surgery-_3228588

Munley underwent total knee replacement surgery in January and still walks with a cane. She said the most difficult part of her recovery has been learning to rely on others.

Some PD's issued it when it first came out. Almost all of them have now removed it from service due to lack-luster performance on the job.

Prove it.

Don't cite internet hearsay, either, because that doesn't prove anything.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

There is no red dot on the pistol pictured with the deer. I don't know Gary Roberts so I can't speak on what he has tested or why but I participated in the USASOC test conducted on 5.7, 4.7, the KAC PDW and some other PDW cartridges. We did our test in 2006. 5.7 wasn't a show stopper out of the P90 so I can only imagine its worse out of the shorter pistol barrel.

 

[BAYOU922]

There is no red dot on the pistol pictured with the deer.

Yes there is. It's a Burris Fastfire sight and it's mounted at the back of the slide.

5.7 wasn't a show stopper out of the P90 so I can only imagine its worse out of the shorter pistol barrel.

EA's 5.7x28mm loads out of the pistol barrel are faster than SS190 out of the P90 barrel, as independently chronographed (that's right, with a 4.8-inch barrel they are achieving better performance than SS190 out of the 10.3-inch P90 barrel).

Their heavier 5.7x28mm loads expand and penetrate 12+ inches in ballistic gelatin, even out of the pistol (for comparison, SS190 will not do that out of either the pistol or the P90).

 

[JWG223]

So if i use ammo invented by a con artist it works well? Ill pass. Btw, since you want to talk about fort hood, how many people died vs. Vtech? 9mm in the hands of a kid who went to the range once or twice (literally) caused a lot more loss of life than an enlisted with a 5.7 and nearly twice the shots fired iirc. Will link to police dept. Issue when I'm at a pc.

 

[BAYOU922]

So if i use ammo invented by a con artist it works well? Ill pass.

It works well with or without EA's ammo, as demonstrated by the photos and other first-hand information posted in this thread. As for the "con artist" (aka Ryan Herle), he was removed from their company years ago; you know that.

Btw, since you want to talk about fort hood, how many people died vs. Vtech? 9mm in the hands of a kid who went to the range once or twice (literally) caused a lot more loss of life

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_tech_massacre

The unusually high fatality rate at Virginia Tech was due to the fact that 31 of the 33 deceased were shot in the head. The average mass shooter, fortunately, does not achieve that sort of shot placement. Per news reports, most of the wounded survivors at Fort Hood were shot in limbs and other non-vital areas of their bodies.

The soldiers at Fort Hood were highly motivated during that attack, one way or the other; all of them were very intent on surviving and helping others survive. Many of the victims described feeling the effects of adrenalin during the shooting, and two of the victims even charged the shooter with chairs (according to the pre-trial testimony, both were killed with shots to the chest before they could reach him).

The female police officer that responded to the shooting was also intent on stopping the shooter, but by all reports was incapacitated (and nearly died) by her leg wounds. The bullet shattered her femur into "hundreds of bone fragments" according to her personal comments on her blog, as well as other news sources. According to her blog, she subsequently underwent a complete knee replacement operation and she won't be able to do patrol work anymore. Of course, as I demonstrated, all of this information is corroborated by a number of witnesses including Munley herself, on both her blog and in her trial testimony.

than an enlisted with a 5.7

Prior to his purchase of the Five-seveN, Hasan had zero experience shooting handguns.

and nearly twice the shots fired iirc

Wrong.

Cho fired 174 rounds indoors in the Virginia Tech shooting (per source above). Hasan fired 146 rounds indoors in the Fort Hood shooting; he fired an additional 68 rounds outdoors in an exchange of gunfire with responding police, but a large percentage of those shots were misses, for obvious reasons.

 

[dwr461]

Ok so what we're saying is that 5.7 no longer obeys the laws of physics and EA ammo is made by dark wizards to perform magic?

Dave

 

[dwr461]

What I'm saying is this we know the weight of the bullet, the sectional density, and the ballistic coefficient. This will determine the maximum amount of energy that could be used in the impact. Bullet design cannot exceed this maximum amount of energy. Period. When I read wild claims that I know do not obey the laws of physics I know that the results are wrong. I add that to the fact that I've personally seen more handgun shootings than most people ever will and I know what a FiveseveN is capable of doing based on physics and an understanding of bullet design. Yes it can absolutely kill something. But shot placement is key. It's not magic. Light bullets that mushroom out quickly or "explode" don't penetrate deeply. They can't. The bullet momentum isn't great enough. No amount of BS will change that. Light bullets that penetrate deeply must have a very high velocity and/or sectional density as well as retain much of their weight. These facts cannot be changed.

Dave