Little Falls Home Defense incident ...more than meets the eye?

[Hitman]

Been watching this.

It started as 'Home invaders shot dead by Home Owner'
He did shoot them, inside his home, almost in the basement,
where he was sitting as they came down the stairs.
After MULTIPLE break-ins of his home were reported to the Local Sheriff's Office.

Case Closed right? ...not quite...

Now it's turned into a 1st Degree Murder Case......


This is what scares me about this case and it's direction.

The problem(per say) according to the Grand Jury who deliberated 2 days before
declaring that 1st Degree Premeditated Murder could be pursued,
is supposedly what the Home Owner did AFTER the shooting.

But prosecutors say he sat in his basement with guns,
waiting for the teens to enter his house,
then went too far when he continued to shoot them after they were no longer a threat.

Prosecutors say he crossed a legal line into murder
by continuing to shoot them after they were wounded and no longer posed a threat.

Dr. Kelly Mills with the Ramsey County Medical Examiner's Office testified that
Brady was shot three times, Kifer six times.

Kelly Mills of the Ramsey County medical examiner’s office.
Mills conceded under defense cross-examination that experts couldn’t rule out the possibility that the first two shots — one fired into his abdomen and another through his left rear shoulder and back — may not have completely incapacitated Brady.

Defense attorneys contend Smith was still scared that they might have used weapons against him.

The final, fatal shot went through Brady’s hand and into his temple from between six inches to three feet away, Mills testified.

Testimony described six gunshot wounds to Kifer’s body — the fifth shot fired at close range from under her left ear and killing her, Mills testified.

The final shot also came at close range under her chin.

That will indeed be cross-examined on how accurate of a distance can be determined.


But then another Doc said;

The two Minnesota cousins killed by a man who claimed he was defending himself after they broke into his home
were each shot multiple times, a medical examiner testified Thursday,
and while the initial gunshots caused serious injury,
they did not immediately kill the teens.

The homeowner after shooting the home invaders inside his home,
did some pretty weird things. Some are saying he likely went into some form of shock
which was the cause for his odd behavior.

That odd behavior?
There seems to be a list. So much so that a Grand Jury deliberated for two days on the evidence
and decided that 1st Degree Murder was the right charge

There is audio(which could be his demise) of almost the entire break-in and shooting and hours afterwards
of the Homeowner seemingly talking to himself in some form of shock.

The male was shot first coming down the basement.
The female came to find him, and was shot too.

They were then shot a few more times a piece
with the female shot three times in the head(under the chin)

(From TheBlaze) in why they think the case is not typical.

During the previously discussed Smith case, we have a home owner who is aged and alone versus two young and presumably physically fit attackers. Two young people against one old person is a disparity of force issue in favor of the home invaders. That checks off the *ability* box. The opportunity and intent factors were addressed when the two teenagers forced their way into someone’s home to commit an aggravated burglary (forcibly enter an occupied dwelling in order to commit a theft offense).

The train left the tracks the moment that Smith could no longer demonstrate *fear of death or serious bodily harm.* If Smith had shot Brady and then continued to seek cover from any criminal accomplices he would have remained within the law. Smith’s actions to move the body off of the carpet to prevent blood stains, in addition to being bizarre, does not appear consistent with a person in fear for their life.

The killing of Kifer could only be seen as justified, again, if Smith could testify to being in fear of his life from the second home invader. Smith’s comments after shooting Kifer, and then the follow up shots after

I'm trying to find the full list of the things he said after and during the shooting. (Still looking)
But I find myself wondering if that really matters. Does it matter?
Does what you SAY afterwards, especially if you're in shock matter?

Apparently it does.....and I wonder if this could be a problem in the future.

Let me jump out ahead and say, I surely don't approve of his actions AFTER the shooting.
But I'm not convinced this is a "Two counts of 1st Degree Murder Charge either"

I'm more concerned of what a Guilty Verdict would mean towards someone
who shot and killed two Home Invaders....INSIDE his home, what that could mean for future cases.

But the most damning evidence is in his own audio and testimony;
Smith told authorities that his gun jammed after he fired the first shot at Kifer,
so he pulled out a handgun and continued shooting with that.

He said he dragged her body near Brady’s in a basement workshop
and fired a *good, clean finishing shot* under her chin and into her skull after hearing her make noise.

That may very well set the case apart from Lawful Home Defense.....

The Prosecution Rest;(This a.m.)
Closing arguments in the case are expected early next week.



Related Links;
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/25308614/byron-smith-trial-audio-of-shootings-evokes-emotion

http://www.startribune.com/local/204730381.html
http://wirednixon.com/blog/little-falls-teens-autopsy-photos-shown-in-murder-trial/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/23/judge-denies-mistrial-in-fatal-shooting-of-2-teens/
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/04/24/teens-autopsy-photos-shown-in-minn-murder-trial/
http://lacrossetribune.com/news/sta...cle_26b12120-7a6e-5b9c-b889-99da98a9e4e5.html

 

[olivs260]

Isn't this the guy that straight-up admitted to responding officers that he executed the teens after shooting them? He honestly sounded like a sick individual who killed them like they were just animals.

 

[oleheat]

So I'll go out on a limb here and assume he didn't have an attorney present?

 

[rtr_rtr]

Isn't the typical difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder premeditation and planning vs heat of the moment? If so, I don't see how 1st makes sense. Regardless, I foresee him going to prison. You can also definitely get a rough estimate of firing distance, particularly if on bare skin.

For those interested (graphic warning)

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1975428-overview#a30

^graphic warning

 

[Emperor]

Isn't the typical difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder premeditation and planning vs heat of the moment? If so, I don't see how 1st makes sense. Regardless, I foresee him going to prison. You can also definitely get a rough estimate of firing distance, particularly if on bare skin.

For those interested (graphic warning)

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1975428-overview#a30

^graphic warning

I would hazard the guess, that when he decided to "finish" them off; he had presumably decided to murder them after the fact.

If the words, "finish (them - her - him) off" is anywhere in the official record, this dude is going down!

 

[madwabbit]

this is a miley cyrus topic.

so much wrong with it, its like where do you even start.

 

[Hitman]

If the words, "finish (them - her - him) off" is anywhere in the official record, this dude is going down!

Pretty sure it is.

Just found this. I believe this is where the line was crossed.

He told authorities that after he moved her,
he noticed she was still gasping and didn’t want her to suffer,
so he fired under her chin with a 22.-caliber handgun

He probably won't get convicted for the boy though,
just the girl and it may get dropped to 2nd degree.

That's some messed up **** ....

 

[Hitman]

this is a miley cyrus topic.

so much wrong with it, its like where do you even start.

Yep. You read that crazy ****, and then you read something that sounds like it makes sense;

When questioned about why he had continued to shoot,
Smith said he didn’t want to wait for them to pull weapons,

Smith said he ended up hiding in the basement through the night before calling a neighbor the next day
because he was afraid of an accomplice.

See? Dude hid in basement waiting on #3 to come down the stairs.

Crazy stuff.....

 

[Emperor]

Pretty sure it is.

Just found this. I believe this is where the line was crossed.


He probably won't get convicted for the boy though,
just the girl and it may get dropped to 2nd degree.

That's some messed up **** ....

I DO think it is sad, that if you DO shoot some pile of **** for invading your home; you have to watch that garbage bleed out on a nice rug or carpet lest you be accused of being a douche!

 

[Hitman]

I DO think it is sad, that if you DO shoot some pile of **** for invading your home; you have to watch that garbage bleed out on a nice rug or carpet lest you be accused of being a douche!

Well that seems to be the ROOT of the issue getting buried by the dirt.

The root?
Two home invaders consciously made the decision to Break In to a mans home.
In order to steal/rape/murder who freaking knows.
They were killed by the homeowner, who ran to the basement when he heard the glass brake.

..... The Home Invaders is who set this wheel in motion.

 

[olivs260]

How about, instead of "finishing her off", he does his best to keep her alive until the paramedics can get there? I know they were in his house and all, but they're still human beings, and it was his moral duty to do his best to preserve life. They're not a deer he shot that he was going to harvest anyway, so he shot it again to end the suffering. They're fricken human beings. We have hospitals and doctors and emergency medicine and all that! They very well could have been saved.

I think he just had a blood lust after his home having been broken into a few times before. Sick individual.

 

[Hitman]

How about, instead of "finishing her off", he does his best to keep her alive until the paramedics can get there?

Actually one of the Med Examiners said she was likely already dead before that,
and the sound she made was likely that of air escaping her lungs when he moved her.

Just saying.

I know they were in his house and all, but they're still human beings, and it was his moral duty to do his best to preserve life.

Pretty sure we've learned a lot of opinions here on this site
about morals and law and how they shouldn't mix.
(Supposedly )

Is it my moral duty to give CPR to a dying Home Invader
that I shot when I found him trying to rape my daughter?

They're not a deer he shot that he was going to harvest anyway, so he shot it again to end the suffering. They're fricken human beings. We have hospitals and doctors and emergency medicine and all that! They very well could have been saved.
.

... You have no way of actually knowing that.

Like he said, he wasn't leaving the basement for fear of #3.

What if he was in shock? He sure sounded like he wasn't in his right mind talking to himself.

 

[Emperor]

How about, instead of "finishing her off", he does his best to keep her alive until the paramedics can get there? I know they were in his house and all, but they're still human beings, and it was his moral duty to do his best to preserve life. They're not a deer he shot that he was going to harvest anyway, so he shot it again to end the suffering. They're fricken human beings. We have hospitals and doctors and emergency medicine and all that! They very well could have been saved.

I think he just had a blood lust after his home having been broken into a few times before. Sick individual.

How about thugs and criminals not enter ANY dwellings that they are not explicitly invited to enter? You know, kind of like; if you intentionally drink cyanide you will most likely die!

 

[olivs260]

... You have no way of actually knowing that.

And now we never will. Hopefully the ME was right that she was already dead. I'm going off the facts when this first came out, and what was posted on here. Didn't do additional research at this point. But yeah, administering a "kill shot", even if it's a coup de grace, is pretty much murder.

Good point that he was worried there might be a third invader. I forget- did he call 911 at any point during this, or was it not until the next morning? He might not have even had a phone in the basement. If so, good case for keeping an old (inactivated) cell phone plugged in in whatever room you would plan to retreat to. They can still make emergency calls.

- - - Updated - - -

How about thugs and criminals not enter ANY dwellings that they are not explicitly invited to enter? You know, kind of like; if you intentionally drink cyanide you will most likely die!

Well yes, that would be advisable. lol

 

[Hitman]

Yea I don't think he had a line in the basement.

I'm also not approving of 'kill shots' , good Lord that's horrible.

But It's hard to call this Premeditated Murder.

Old man could have lost his **** actually being there with your WORST NIGHTMARE in your house.

Think about it. He didn't actually KNOW who was in the house or coming down the stairs.
While you're waiting, listening, hearing every move made I can imagine your suspicions and anxiety is
blown through the ROOF imagining just who it is, what do they look like HOW MANY are there!!?!?
it'd be like a damn horror flick for elderly people like him. Heck maybe for anyone.

It's not like they entered a WELL LIT SPOTLIGHT ROOM
where he could clearly see who they were.
They were coming down the basement stairs in the dark.

 

[general mills]

I'm not seeing premeditated murder, they broke into his house to do crime. If that is premeditated murder, than all of us would be guilty. Personally, I premeditated the possibility of someone breaking into my house and own a gun to shoot them for it, and I don't think that makes me a murderer. I do think that giving a *good, clean finishing shot* to someone who is lying bleeding on the ground in this day and age of EMS and modern medicine morally does. I do not think you are obligated to make any actions to save their life (CPR or such, I'm certainly not going to, I will be doing my best to control my emotions and not give a "good, clean finishing shot"). This is purely my moral view, not legal. I'm not sure of the laws in Minneapolis, but based on what I read, I would need further convincing by a prosecuting attorney to convict him of murder under Louisiana law.

I do have to ask, why is there a long recording of this event? And this man should have really considered what he was going to say to the police after he shot someone beforehand, because he almost couldn't have said anything worse.

 

[AustinBR]

From what I heard on the news, he had a recording of much of it going down as well as a recording of them actually breaking into the house. From the way the news spins things...well...it sounded like he as waiting to kill someone. I didn't read much into the story though.

 

[Hitman]

I do have to ask, why is there a long recording of this event?

He heard the glass break
Grabs guns, turns on recorder on book shelf.
Heads to basement to hide out.

And this man should have really considered what he was going to say to the police after he shot someone beforehand, because he almost couldn't have said anything worse.

again...I think this guy was in shock/looney.

From the way the news spins things...well...it sounded like he as waiting to kill someone.

Which you'd think would be impossible in your own house

 

[AustinBR]

He heard the glass break
Grabs guns, turns on recorder on book shelf.
Heads to basement to hide out.



again...I think this guy was in shock/looney.




Which you'd think would be impossible in your own house

I think that he was a little cray cray in the head. Did he murder someone. Maybe. Should he get charged with it and face jail time...probably not...

 

[Leonidas]

His mistake was not using 12g, no.1 buck. No coup de grace necessary.