Little Falls Home Defense incident ...more than meets the eye?

[Hitman]

I hate the whole 'Insanity' plea.....but...
If ANY CASE ever could have leaned on an 'Insanity Plea' could it have NOT been this one? Jeez....

*Audio Released*
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ded-65-year-old-killer-set-trap-basement.html

 

[madwabbit]

I hate the whole 'Insanity' plea.....but...
If ANY CASE ever could have leaned on an 'Insanity Plea' could it have NOT been this one? Jeez....

*Audio Released*
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ded-65-year-old-killer-set-trap-basement.html

doesn't sound insane in the least. after murdering the girl he makes very rational conclusions about the potential consequences of his actions. "Well they may prosecute me, but i won't live in fear."

 

[olivs260]

Prosecutors say Smith had moved his truck to make it look like no one was home, then sat in a chair at the bottom of his stairs with a book, energy bars, a bottle of water and two guns. He also set up a hand-held recorder on a bookshelf.

Yeeeeah... starting to see where the premeditated part came in.

 

[Hitman]

Yeeeeah... starting to see where the premeditated part came in.

Yep.

 

[Leonidas]

Yeeeeah... starting to see where the premeditated part came in.

I didn't follow the case and really dgas about it. But saying that him setting up in the basement constitutes premeditation for murder is no different than saying one of us having a gun next to our bed is the same. Police on a stakeout is entrapment. Both are predicated on the criminal behavior of a miscreant. Some states say one must retreat before using deadly force. He actually did that. Arguably, the basement was his panic room.

He may be guilty of premeditation, but that action is not evidence of it.

 

[Hitman]

I didn't follow the case and really dgas about it. But saying that him setting up in the basement constitutes premeditation for murder is no different than saying one of us having a gun next to our bed is the same. Police on a stakeout is entrapment. Both are predicated on the criminal behavior of a miscreant. Some states say one must retreat before using deadly force. He actually did that. Arguably, the basement was his panic room.

I'm not saying I agree, but that is where the jury was being led.

He in fact did put a plan together, that would make his home look vacant by parking down the street,
and walking back to his home.

Who knows what the tarp was far laid out the tarp as to avoid blood stains(planning)
or to bury the bodies? I mean there was some planning out side the normal setting your house up to be secure.

I still think he was as close to legal as you can get until he finished the 2nd vic off with the chin shot.

Up until that point, he hadn't really done anything unlawful/. IIRC

I don't even consider the post-traumatic ******** he spoke during and after as being relevant.
I've made my point on that earlier. During high stress, people say and do crazy ****. No secret there.

 

[madwabbit]

I'm not saying I agree, but that is where the jury was being led.

He in fact did put a plan together, that would make his home look vacant by parking down the street,
and walking back to his home.

Who knows what the tarp was far laid out the tarp as to avoid blood stains(planning)
or to bury the bodies? I mean there was some planning out side the normal setting your house up to be secure.

I still think he was as close to legal as you can get until he finished the 2nd vic off with the chin shot.

Up until that point, he hadn't really done anything unlawful/. IIRC

Well, what he did illegal was fail to prove fear for his life when shooting two human beings. What he actually ended up proving was the female's fear for her own life. I mean he KNEW there was a recording...

"PLEASE DONT HURT ME!!"

Bang.

"GET OUT OF MY HOUSE! I HAVE A GUN. DONT COME ANY CLOSER"

Bang.

Instead he opted with the fantastic legal defense of "YOU'RE DEAD B*TCH"


If anything people as stupid as this guy actually hurt the pro-gun agenda. It paints us all out the way liberals want: like we are hunting humans and daring them to knock on our door at night.

 

[olivs260]

I'm not saying I agree, but that is where the jury was being led.

He in fact did put a plan together, that would make his home look vacant by parking down the street,
and walking back to his home.

Who knows what the tarp was far laid out the tarp as to avoid blood stains(planning)
or to bury the bodies? I mean there was some planning out side the normal setting your house up to be secure.

I still think he was as close to legal as you can get until he finished the 2nd vic off with the chin shot.

Up until that point, he hadn't really done anything unlawful/. IIRC

I don't even consider the post-traumatic ******** he spoke during and after as being relevant.
I've made my point on that earlier. During high stress, people say and do crazy ****. No secret there.

I agree with HM on all of this. I don't think I would call it premeditated based on those facts, but it damn sure is a lot closer to it than if he had actually retreated to his basement after the break-in started. I think the prosecution would have painted a picture that he was essentially hunting teenagers from a deer stand.

Baiting? Check (made house look vacant)
Place to lie in wait? Check
Snacks and water to keep energy levels up? Check
Plans for dealing with the body? Check

None of it is illegal, but it sure makes it seem like he was hoping to "get his". That said, I still think without the coup de grâce and the audio recording, he would have been found innocent. But none of those things he did helped him.

 

[olivs260]

It paints us all out the way liberals want: like we are hunting humans and daring them to knock on our door at night.

YES. And I've heard idiots calling into radio shows basically saying that. "I HOPE they come to my door! They'll get what's coming for em!"

Hell, guys were saying pretty much that at one of our Neighborhood Watch meetings. I was horrified.

 

[Leonidas]

From the discussion, here, the damning evidence is the dialogue before the kill shot. I'd still max out at 2nd degree.

If he really was hunting (and it seems he was) the smarter move would be to empty the mag without pause.

I've heard of self defense instructors saying to class, 'when you are asked why you shot the bad guy 9 times, the answer is, 'because I ran out of bullets.'

 

[SpeedRacer]

Yeah so I just listened to the audio...dude got what he deserved.

Notice the argument here has shifted from legitimate self defense to basically "he would have gotten away with it if...". I sure hope some of y'all don't share his mindset.

 

[madwabbit]

Yeah so I just listened to the audio...dude got what he deserved.

Notice the argument here has shifted from legitimate self defense to basically "he would have gotten away with it if...". I sure hope some of y'all don't share his mindset.

absolutely not. it was more intended as a "this is how much blatant disregard he had"

 

[olivs260]

It kind of went from "is he guilty or not" to "where did it go wrong?" So I think talking about where you draw the line is perfectly acceptable. I didn't see anybody really saying "man if only he would have _____ then he could have gotten away with killing those kids"

 

[Hitman]

It kind of went from "is he guilty or not" to "where did it go wrong?" So I think talking about where you draw the line is perfectly acceptable. I didn't see anybody really saying "man if only he would have _____ then he could have gotten away with killing those kids"

That's just normally what happens from what I see.
You learn more about the case as facts are released
and those facts have the ability to change your perception or opinion of the case.

We should all immediately question why anyone who shoots an unwelcomed intruder
inside the confines of their own, is on trial.

Once facts are released, it's clear there is a line, in regards to Home Defense,
that you can cross and find yourself in prison for life.

I would hope no one here would ever set up or invite Home Invaders to do just that
in hopes of shooting them. It's pretty clear that won't be tolerated and society is not allowing it to go unpunished.

Nothing wrong with talking about WHERE he went wrong
and where the line was
that he crossed.

Now that the trial is over, it's seems he set this line from the start.
At a place where no rational person here would even likely come close to approaching.
(I.E. - The planned out sequence of events to entice Home Invaders to invade his home,
while planning to shoot them when they did.)