Little Falls Home Defense incident ...more than meets the eye?

[madwabbit]

If she was already dead, and then he shot her with the intent to kill her, is that murder? In most jurisdictions I don't know if it is. I think you actually have to kill someone, not shoot a dead body.

But yeah in this case you're probably right about proving premeditation.

I don't know, but forensics will shed light on that I guarantee it. If he in theory had shot her after she died, it'll be an argument that he was firing out of anger and not out of a perceived threat. I wouldn't want to be him because no matter how you spin this it ends up with him in the wrong. I'd say "attempted murder" more than "murder", because he didn't actually take life, but I don't have experience as a prosecutor. If we take away the "in theory" of this paragraph, its a moot point because he actually did kill her moments before and admitted to it to boot.

1911 posed a fantastic question though: do we want a society where if you break into someone's home, all bets are off? or vice versa: do we want a society where when someone breaks in your home, you had better deal with them justly and humanely lest you be sued or indicted?

either way this case is going to have repercussions imo

 

[JadeRaven]

It would be unfortunate if someone could break into your house and then be able to drag you through court. It would also be unfortunate if we encouraged murderers to invite victims into their homes.... hmm.

 

[Hitman]

Well regardless, the prosecution rested Friday.

My question is this. If the jury says "Not Guilty" meaning not all 12 could say 'Guilty',
is he a Free Man? barring the Judge doesn't reject the jury?

Seems like this guy may have a slim chance of getting a 'Not guilty' ala Reasonable Doubt
with the state ending up empty handed for going for 1st Degree.

2nd question;
Does he have to be convicted of BOTH murders without a reasonable doubt?
What if the jury only finds him guilty of 1st degree on the girl for the Chin Shot?

Or can they be separate?
As if to say that if the jury can't find him guilty on both
does he go free?

 

[madwabbit]

Well regardless, the prosecution rested Friday.

My question is this. If the jury says "Not Guilty" meaning not all 12 could say 'Guilty',
is he a Free Man? barring the Judge doesn't reject the jury?

Seems like this guy may have a slim chance of getting a 'Not guilty' ala Reasonable Doubt
with the state ending up empty handed for going for 1st Degree.

2nd question;
Does he have to be convicted of BOTH murders without a reasonable doubt?
What if the jury only finds him guilty of 1st degree on the girl for the Chin Shot?

Or can they be separate?
As if to say that if the jury can't find him guilty on both
does he go free?

No, the charges are separate. Guilty on 1, Not Guilty on other - usually a likely scenario to resolve jury conflicts.

 

[Hitman]

Defense rests in Byron Smith murder trial
as Smith waived his right to testify just before the morning break.
http://www.startribune.com/local/257001051.html

This dudes going down for something and the defense knows it.
I think their plan is to appeal. The Lawyer has been declaring a mistrial since last week for various reasons.
Guess we'll see.

I'm surprised the whole insanity plea didn't come out with him seemingly talking to himself
for hours after the shootings took place.

 

[Leonidas]

It's awful hard to get shot in the palm with a weapon in your hand.

I've also never met an open handed individual laying on the floor that was a threat to my life.

I didn't see the report that she was an amputee. Else why would a sane person assume that if an aggressor is showing an open hand, obviously the OTHER hand is also empty. Many criminals are practiced in the art of misdirection. Pickpockets, 3 card Monte dealers, grifters.

 

[madwabbit]

I didn't see the report that she was an amputee. Else why would a sane person assume that if an aggressor is showing an open hand, obviously the OTHER hand is also empty. Many criminals are practiced in the art of misdirection. Pickpockets, 3 card Monte dealers, grifters.

Become familiar with the details of the case- it was highly unlikely. Notgoing through this circus again. Im not implying that all open hsnds everywhere are safe
7

 

[my-rifle]

He heard the glass break
Grabs guns, turns on recorder on book shelf.
Heads to basement to hide out.



again...I think this guy was in shock/looney.:

I don't think he was in shock.. The way I read it, he said to the girl, "You're dying bitch." before he fired the "kill shot".

Doesn't sound like shock. Sounds like he was planning on killing her.

*Nick,* said the voice before another gunshot is fired and Kifer is heard tumbling down the stairs.

*Oh, sorry about that,* Smith says.

*Oh my God!* the teen screams.

*You’re dying,* Smith tells her as more gunfire erupts. *B---h.*

The sound of another body getting dragged can be heard in the crystal-clear audio clip before Smith speaks to his victim again.

*B---h,* he says, before firing another round.

...
Smith admitted that he fired more than needed, but it stemmed from a life of fear. He also said that the extra shot into Kifer was to stop her from suffering.

He said he gave her *a good, clean finishing shot. ... She gave out the death twitch.*


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...lly-shooting-teen-intruders-article-1.1765846

Sound like shock to you?

 

[AustinBR]

I don't think he was in shock.. The way I read it, he said to the girl, "You're dying bitch." before he fired the "kill shot".

Doesn't sound like shock. Sounds like he was planning on killing her.

*Nick,* said the voice before another gunshot is fired and Kifer is heard tumbling down the stairs.

*Oh, sorry about that,* Smith says.

*Oh my God!* the teen screams.

*You’re dying,* Smith tells her as more gunfire erupts. *B---h.*

The sound of another body getting dragged can be heard in the crystal-clear audio clip before Smith speaks to his victim again.

*B---h,* he says, before firing another round.

...
Smith admitted that he fired more than needed, but it stemmed from a life of fear. He also said that the extra shot into Kifer was to stop her from suffering.

He said he gave her *a good, clean finishing shot. ... She gave out the death twitch.*


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...lly-shooting-teen-intruders-article-1.1765846

Sound like shock to you?

Sounds like they are probably going to hit this guy with murder.

 

[madwabbit]

I can't imagine any scenario in which they wouldn't.

 

[Hitman]

Sound like shock to you?

Yes. Text book acute stress response
via detachment and depersonalization amoungst others.

I'm no psychologist, but I have seen men shoot and kill other men.
What they say during and after ...well let's just say, I'm glad there were no recordings of it.
It would likely clearly be held against them in a court of law.

SHTF, Adrenaline Spikes, Muscle Memory takes over ... and sometimes raw emotions come out,
however weird and crazy they may sound...or look for that matter.

NOW HEAR THIS!
Do not mistake my post as saying he shouldn't be held accountable for his actions.
I'm merely saying that his words, IMO, following the fact that he just shot people,
may not be all that conclusionary in attempting to understand his true mindset
and I don't think he was 100% cognitive of what he was saying.

Does the guy sound like he's got it all together?

But like I said, if he's found guilty, which, I think he is, he should get the chair for executing the female.
I'm in the category of it's ok if you say you're looney, you're still getting the chair for your actions, or LIP/

Does he sound like a sane person to you?
I mean I think any one of us could make a case
that this guy who shoots two home invaders, (legal)
but then moves the bodies, finishes one of them off,
talks to himself the entire time(for almost 6 hours),
and then calls his neighbor ..... I mean, seems pretty normal right?

 

[Leonidas]

Become familiar with the details of the case- it was highly unlikely. Notgoing through this circus again. Im not implying that all open hsnds everywhere are safe
7

You didn't imply it, you stated it quite clearly.

I cannot become familiar with the details of the case. To do so would require access to both the prosecution's AND the defense's files. To form an opinion otherwise seems irresponsible.

 

[madwabbit]

You didn't imply it, you stated it quite clearly.

I cannot become familiar with the details of the case. To do so would require access to both the prosecution's AND the defense's files. To form an opinion otherwise seems irresponsible.

you're telling me what I intended based on internet text? Okay, you're all knowing and equally all intelligent. You're right. You win the internet-gladiator-black-belt-samurai-trophy-badge of the day.

Oh, and its not a juvenile case and is quite the public trial. Don't mistake laziness for incapability.

 

[Leonidas]

Sorry. I didn't realize you were attending the trial.

 

[MTregre]

This guy seems to have had some ill intentions, and from what I gather he wasn't the best moral fibered person to begin with. Execution isn't part of the game, defense is.
Likewise, they weren't welcome there and its better they are dead. The majority of criminals who continue crime always up the stacks to fill the adrenaline void... best they cant rape and murder kids 3 years from now in another home invasion.

At the end of the day, he recorded it for some reason and that will be his demise. Bad guys dead.

Either way, this case shouldn't make ANY of us here, question defending our families and selves in the event of a home invasion. Remove the threat, secure yourself, call 911. Don't record she-et.

 

[Hitman]

Either way, this case shouldn't make ANY of us here, question defending our families and selves in the event of a home invasion. Remove the threat, secure yourself, call 911. Don't record she-et.

Exactly!

At any rate....and as predicted....

Little Falls Man Found Guilty On All Four Counts Of Murder
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/04/29/closing-arguments-tuesday-in-little-falls-murder-trial/

After roughly three hours of deliberation,
the jury found 65-year-old Byron Smith
guilty of two counts of first-degree murder and two counts of second-degree murder

Got his own Wiki page too;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_David_Smith_killings


Seems family members and the town are cheering about justice being served etc etc...and it was....but....
considering the two home invaders could have been shot dead legally....I think there is some clear denial and
confusion too.

Meh....it's over now.

Out here/

 

[Leonidas]

Wow. That's impressive. The state proved that he killed each of them twice.


WTF?

 

[Judge Mental]

I wondered them same...how is this possible?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Leonidas]

Easy. First, he killed them in the heat of passion. Then, he thought about it and killed them again with malice of forethought.

Yes, counselor, you can have your cake, and eat it, too.

And lawyers wonder why many consider them only slightly above garden slugs on the evolutionary scale.

 

[Rainsdrops]

It doesn't appear to be temporary insanity? The deceased unlawfully enters his home. He doesn't sweep "HIS" home looking for them, he Sits armed in his basement. After unlawfully walking through the above ground portion of his home they proceed downstairs. I don't know about others, but adrenaline, would be pumping through my veins and arteries at this point.... He kills them, in a non traditional manner. But what is a traditional way to shoot someone breaking & entering. IMHO those bitches should have stayed out of his ****, and away from his basement, and no one would be having this discussion.