Live From Louis! Day 3

[Bearco]

+1 on the double-stack .45

 

[Landry308]

Sounds like a good class. Wish I could have gone. Can someone give the Cliff's notes on his views on the need for high capacity ?

 

[spanky]

Sounds like a good class. Wish I could have gone. Can someone give the Cliff's notes on his views on the need for high capacity ?

Ref. Dr. Lewinski Stop-reaction.

It can take up to a second for your brain to make your body stop shooting the gun. In a high stress situation it's proven that you will make the gun go bang as fast as you can until it stops going bang or your brain makes you stop.

It'd be very easy to dump an entire 1911 capacity magazine in a second's time, leaving you with an empty gun.

http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/Vehicular.Assault.htm

While much has been written about officer reaction times in deadly force encounters, not as much has been done regarding the issue of deadly force against moving vehicles. Bill Lewinski’s Tempe Study[3] offers insights that literally scream for attention in this regard. Previous literature has suggested that stop-reaction time – the time it takes for someone actively engaged in an action to react to a new stimulus – is approximately one second. Bringing sophisticated technology to bear, Dr. Lewinski’s research suggests that a multi-tasking officer might require as much as 7/10 of a second to process a “stop stimulus” when firing during a simple multi-task sequence. Is running away from the path of an oncoming car an example of multi-tasking? Most would agree that it would be a strenuous, chaotic and stressful one at that. How will reaction times influence the final shots fired? Let’s combine some facts already established and a few speculative and/or hypothetical concepts with the firing potential of most semi-automatic pistols.

 

[SpeedRacer]

What he said ^

In addition, even though he did teach us "tactical" and speed reloads, Louis states flat out you will not realistically reload in the middle of a street gunfight. The more bullets in the gun, the better.

That's also one of the reasons why he STRONGLY advocates carrying two guns. He can get his "other" gun out and firing much faster than a reload.

 

[nikolai]

I thought it was .45 too. Someone asked him what he carried and he said it was one like "this one" (the dummy 1911) but a double stack. Someone asked if it was a double stack 9mm and he said no it was a .45. But I'm not putting $1000 on it.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Ref. Dr. Lewinski Stop-reaction.

It can take up to a second for your brain to make your body stop shooting the gun. In a high stress situation it's proven that you will make the gun go bang as fast as you can until it stops going bang or your brain makes you stop.

It'd be very easy to dump an entire 1911 capacity magazine in a second's time, leaving you with an empty gun.

http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/Vehicular.Assault.htm

Force Science Research Institute.

http://www.forcescience.org/

Sign up for their newsletter. Their reserch has saved several LEO and Civi asses in court when the "evidence" made it look bad for them. Shooting unarmed, in the back, and all the fabled taboo no-shoot situations are demystified here. I wen to a 4 hour session couple weeks ago at ILEETA conference given by FSRI. Very eye opening. I have been on their mailing list for years.

 

[spanky]

Yes, I was, and he carries an XD in .45 and a 1911 in 9mm, and I will bet $1000 dollars on the 9mm 1911 part

On the steps he said he carried a "9mm of JMB design" and I said - Hi Power? remember? We later had a discussion about para magazines, how touchy they are, how the 9mm para mags need to be tuned... etc.

Trust me - 18+1 1911 in 9mm, XD back up.

I was there when someone asked him if it was a 9mm and he said no, it is a .45. we were talkin about the "primary."

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I was there when someone asked him if it was a 9mm and he said no, it is a .45. we were talkin about the "primary."

Yeah, I asked hi m and he said it was a double stack 45 in 1911 and a 45 XD compact. Although, I think he switches it up every now and then. I also saw the XD in his secret spot in his vehicle..

 

[aroundlsu]

He said he was currently carrying a double stack 45 only because he has some extra 45 ammo right now.

Which brings up another point... He hasn't touched on ammo selection in any class. Interesting that he would ignore that topic.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

He said he was currently carrying a double stack 45 only because he has some extra 45 ammo right now.

Which brings up another point... He hasn't touched on ammo selection in any class. Interesting that he would ignore that topic.

I am pretty sure his opion on bullet weight etc is the same as his opinion on 45 vs 9mm......

"F-ck it, a bullet is a bullet. The more of them you have the better." LOL

 

[SpeedRacer]

Yes, I was, and he carries an XD in .45 and a 1911 in 9mm, and I will bet $1000 dollars on the 9mm 1911 part

On the steps he said he carried a "9mm of JMB design" and I said - Hi Power? remember? We later had a discussion about para magazines, how touchy they are, how the 9mm para mags need to be tuned... etc.

Trust me - 18+1 1911 in 9mm, XD back up.

Like everyone else, I heard him specifically say it was a .45. That said, I'm sure he has both, and now that you mention it I do remember the convo you are referring to as well. So I guess we're both right. I'd say it's safe to assume Louis Awerbuck has more than one pistol.

 

[SpeedRacer]

I am pretty sure his opion on bullet weight etc is the same as his opinion on 45 vs 9mm......

"F-ck it, a bullet is a bullet. The more of them you have the better." LOL

Exactly. And shot placement. A 9mm on target is better than a magic exploding .50 an inch off...

 

[dzelenka]

I agree that he emphasized placement, but he also emphasized "deep meat" penetration. That would indicate that he would not favor light for the caliber bullets.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

His take on the importance of recognizing the line of greatest penetration into "deep meat" is A) unique to him, as far as the degree of emphasis and B) so important it is amazing to me that it isn't a basic tenant of shooting to use curved torso targets at odd angles...

It is in most courses that are tailored to LEO/DOD. The problem is that Louis' class was a fighting class. Most classes, especially "civilian" classes are "shooting" classes which focus on the mechanics of sight alignment, trigger control, etc. Louis is very talented at diagnosising those issues and correcting them quickly. He also teaches from a fighting and surviving standpoint instead of a pretty target perspective.

Also, this particular group had no real "problem shooters" to speak of. Everyone was hitting paper at decent group sizes.

 

[LACamper]

I've said this before but it bears repeating. I think a lot of the reputation problems the 1911 has is due to people trying to build super accurate guns. The gun was meant to be loose and somewhat sloppy (slide/frame fit especially). If you tighten everything up you're more likely to have malfunctions but gain mechanical accuracy. Not to say it can't be done but the odds of having a problem go up. Add in lots of home gunsmiths and you've got problems.
I have a springfield loaded as it came from the factory. The only part I would consider changing are the grips... no complaints. I've run maybe 1000 rounds through it so far and no problems. I had a very used Colt years ago that I couldn't run a mag without a jam. On the other hand my speed at responding to FTE's improved considerably!

 

[SpeedRacer]

It is in most courses that are tailored to LEO/DOD. The problem is that Louis' class was a fighting class. Most classes, especially "civilian" classes are "shooting" classes which focus on the mechanics of sight alignment, trigger control, etc. Louis is very talented at diagnosising those issues and correcting them quickly. He also teaches from a fighting and surviving standpoint instead of a pretty target perspective.

Exactly. I have friends that have been to Gunsite, Front Sight, so on and so forth. They teach all the fun "fighting" stuff (ie rapid fire, point shooting, shooting on the move, etc) but ALWAYS belt buckle to belt buckle with the target, always aiming center of mass or head shots. You put these guys 45 degrees off the target and they'd be bouncing them off the ribs/skull in real life. Like you said, it's all about making pretty holes in pretty targets, with not much relevance to the real world. Louis has a great understanding of the human body and real life bullet wounds that I don't think you really find anywhere else, at least in the civilian market.

When I talked to my buddies this weekend that have been to the other schools, they were dumbfounded. They couldn't believe something so vital to actually surviving a gunfight was left out of their fancy $1000+ training curriculum.

 

[jmcrawf1]

Exactly. I have friends that have been to Gunsite, Front Sight, so on and so forth. They teach all the fun "fighting" stuff (ie rapid fire, point shooting, shooting on the move, etc) but ALWAYS belt buckle to belt buckle with the target, always aiming center of mass or head shots. You put these guys 45 degrees off the target and they'd be bouncing them off the ribs/skull in real life. Like you said, it's all about making pretty holes in pretty targets, with not much relevance to the real world. Louis has a great understanding of the human body and real life bullet wounds that I don't think you really find anywhere else, at least in the civilian market.

When I talked to my buddies this weekend that have been to the other schools, they were dumbfounded. They couldn't believe something so vital to actually surviving a gunfight was left out of their fancy $1000+ training curriculum.

I almost puked when I saw how much the classes were on the gunsite website. Just a bit of sticker shock

 

[Born4spd]

Anyone know what Brand/Make doublestack 1911 he carries?

 

[aroundlsu]

Someone said it was a Para frame with Colt internals? But I may be way off. Everything else on his belt I promise I will get to tomorrow. It really doesn't seem like a lot after he breaks it all down.

 

[Born4spd]

Someone said it was a Para frame with Colt internals? But I may be way off. Everything else on his belt I promise I will get to tomorrow. It really doesn't seem like a lot after he breaks it all down.

None of us will be shocked anyway, LC is on here