NSFW All Out War in Kiev NSFW

[tim9lives]

Yep...He definitely wants the old empire back. Putin is KGB all the way....Except now, they give the people the right to vote so that they have the thin veil of democracy. What good is democracy when the election system is rigged and parties are controlled?
Anyway...make no mistake, IMO Putin laughs at the International community while supporting Iran and Syria's Assad. He played this move like a chess master, waiting till the Sochi games ended and then struck. It hasn't been as heavy handed as older USSR military strikes, but the result seems the same. And he knows Obama will only make a few statements and talk about sanctions.
Sanctions won't go anywhere with a country like Russia that supplies most all of Europe's nat gas.

 

[SVTFreak]

Just talked to a friend in the Crimea region. He said it's blown out of proportion. Said Russian troops been there protecting their military assets and preventing bandits from civilians. Not unlike our leaders would do if **** broke out in a foreign country where we have military assets...

 

[tim9lives]

Just talked to a friend in the Crimea region. He said it's blown out of proportion. Said Russian troops been there protecting their military assets and preventing bandits from civilians. Not unlike our leaders would do if **** broke out in a foreign country where we have military assets...

I totally agree with you there. The USA would do the same thing under similar circumstances. And FWIW...I think we have done the same sort of thing in the past...and said the same sort of thing about protecting our citizens etc. Maybe not to the same degree...but similar. I think as long as Putin sticks with only Crimea...He'll get away with it without much of a stink.
I guess the bottom line is this...The Cold War never really ended.

 

[Hitman]

U.S. to Russia: Pull out of Ukraine immediately

MOSCOW — Stunned by Russia's swift move into the autonomous province of Crimea and the Russian parliament's endorsement of that brazen action, the United States called on Moscow to withdraw its forces from the region and "refrain from any interference elsewhere in Ukraine.

Canada recalls ambassador to Russia over Ukraine

Canada recalled its ambassador to Russia and pulled out of preparation talks for the G8 summit in protest at Moscow’s belligerence over developments in Ukraine, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said late Saturday.

*We join our allies in condemning in the strongest terms President Putin’s military intervention in Ukraine,* Mr. Harper said in a statement.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/u-s-options-russia-declaration-war-ukraine-article-1.1707783

As many as 10,000 Russian soldiers are said to have landed in Crimea,
which is now controlled exclusively by Moscow.

 

[sandman7925]

I got a feeling Putin will continue as he wishes.

 

[SVTFreak]

I got a feeling Putin will continue as he wishes.

Wouldn't we if it was our interests?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Putin wants a concession. He wants to save face and get something. He has to maintain his image at home. He's going to push to the edge until he gets something.

 

[molonlabe]

There will never be war between these two nations, especially between the Ukraine's Eastern half. Russia and Ukraine have always been sister nations. The entire Russian empire started in Kiev... Putin will do everything do stabilize the region. Obama's pathetic posturing is pointless and ridiculous, and as always too late.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Putin isn't trying to stabilize he's trying to dominate.

 

[molonlabe]

Look beyond that what's visible to you on the surface. Turn off the TV, read other regional sources, talk to people who live there... Study the history of the region, and ask the age old question: who's to benefit from all this? What interests does Russia have in Ukraine/Crimea. What are we trying to achieve by being involved?

Besides, what's wrong with dominating the region thats always been a part of Russian empire for hundreds of years, well before the US came into existence. There's always more than just one bully in a school yard, right? And when our castrate leadership keeps redrawing the red lines, other predators smell cowardly ******** a mile away.

Khrushchev gifted Crimea to the Soviet Republic of Ukraine back in the day because he was Ukrainian. Russia has always had its fleet there, even after the collapse of USSR. Now they have a good chance to take it back. Regardless of how weak or strong Russia's military is, Ukraine does not stand a chance. Their navy is a joke, completely decimated by the decades of crumbling economy and corruption on every level.

As far as the invasion of Ukraine goes... It will never happen.

 

[Hitman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances is an international treaty signed on 5 December 1994 in the Hungarian capital Budapest by Ukraine, the United States of America, Russia, and the United Kingdom concerning the nuclear disarmament of Ukraine and its security relationship with the signatory countries. The terms of the memorandum is seen as broken by Russia's 2014 invasion of Crimea.

Interesting.

 

[tim9lives]

Well..So far...Not a single shot has been fired by the troops who rolled into Crimea. So thats a very good thing. And Putin does have a valid point. Even if we doubt his intentions..He said troops have been deployed to stabilize the region and protect vital Russian interest...Troops deployed to protect Russian citizens.

Those are valid points. There is no way Russia is going to give up its Black Sea fleet. And FWIW...chaos is much worse than the current situation. I remember the 80s when the USSR fell. There was chaos everywhere and it was the dawn of our modern terrorist states IMO. Germany pulled it off great. But the Yugoslav & Balkans had it tough. The citizens of those countries paid a high price.

Democracy is great...until you get someone like Karzai who runs Afghanistan. The present situation in Iraq isn't that fantastic either IMO. I'd rather see a stable imperfect government than a chaotic "democracy" / civil war.

In any case....We used the line..."protecting US citizens" and protecting our vital interests when we invaded Panama and Granada.

 

[molonlabe]

http://www.ibtimes.com/nato-countri...timates-are-likely-upset-us-officials-1557868

Today, the U.S. spends approximately 4 percent of its GDP on defense spending, while other NATO members spend an average of 1.6 percent.

According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies, from 2008 to 2010, at least 16 European NATO members reduced their military spending by 10 percent

 

[tim9lives]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances


Interesting.

Yea...That is interesting. I guess that's why the troops don't have any insignia on uniforms. And I vaguely remember hearing Ukraine's Yanukovych making some sort of statement about requesting help.
I may be wrong about that...But that may have been done to act as cover for that treaty Hitman. Anyway...good catch on the treaty

 

[molonlabe]

Tim9lives: exactly. I can attest with most certainty, the people who live there will take a stable economy and a "reasonable dictator" any time of the day over the promises of future reaches and freedoms. You've to know their mentality... Putin's propaganda machine has been working non-stop for 14 years now, trying to convince people how great Soviet Union was. 80-90% of Russians want it back. And sadly, the majority of them don't seem to want to be free. Unfortunately these days, most of them associate the word free with lawless. And that's Putin doing as well. He's created an absolutely corrupt and uncontrollable government machine the majority of Russians despise but can't do anything about it. His ambitions are not to rebuild the old USSR but to become a monarch in a sense. Many Russians already see him as their tsar.

http://besttoday.ru/images/post/image/591.jpeg

 

[tim9lives]

Tim9lives: exactly. I can attest with most certainty, the people who live there will take a stable economy and a "reasonable dictator" any time of the day over the promises of future reaches and freedoms. You've to know their mentality... Putin's propaganda machine has been working non-stop for 14 years now, trying to convince people how great Soviet Union was. 80-90% of Russians want it back. And sadly, the majority of them don't seem to want to be free. Unfortunately these days, most of them associate the word free with lawless. And that's Putin doing as well. He's created an absolutely corrupt and uncontrollable government machine the majority of Russians despise but can't do anything about it. His ambitions are not to rebuild the old USSR but to become a monarch in a sense. Many Russians already see him as their tsar.

http://besttoday.ru/images/post/image/591.jpeg

Yep...totally agree. And FWIW...it looks like the new Russia is made up of old guard people who have embraced capitalism for personal gain. I think the word used is oligarch.
And also...It takes a lot of balls to go up against any government's military. Like what we saw a week ago...Unarmed guys holding little more than "garbage can tops" as a shield against snipers. Those guys knew damned well that those shields were of little protection...yet they kept going back to save the wounded.

oiligarch
The oft missed definition of the new Russian Power Base. Now often referred to in popular media as "Oligarch"(why they use quotations I will never know..it is a real word). In fact it should be defined as Oligarchs since they actually acquired all their power(money) by stealing Oil companies in the rapid privatization era of 1991-1992.

Viktor Fedorovych Yanukovych is a Ukrainian politician who was the President of Ukraine until his removal from power by the Ukrainian parliament in 2014. He took office in February 2010 after winning the 2010 Ukrainian presidential election. Despite his removal from power, he claims to be "the legitimate head of the Ukrainian state elected in a free vote by Ukrainian citizens".[4]

He has an estimated net worth of $12 billion.[5]

TWELVE BILLION....LOL

 

[SVTFreak]

Like my friend there said (in the Crimea region). Soviet military been there. They only protecting their interests. Life is going on as normal. In fact, he's sending a package to me.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Look beyond that what's visible to you on the surface. Turn off the TV, read other regional sources, talk to people who live there... Study the history of the region, and ask the age old question: who's to benefit from all this? What interests does Russia have in Ukraine/Crimea. What are we trying to achieve by being involved?

Besides, what's wrong with dominating the region thats always been a part of Russian empire for hundreds of years, well before the US came into existence. There's always more than just one bully in a school yard, right? And when our castrate leadership keeps redrawing the red lines, other predators smell cowardly ******** a mile away.

Khrushchev gifted Crimea to the Soviet Republic of Ukraine back in the day because he was Ukrainian. Russia has always had its fleet there, even after the collapse of USSR. Now they have a good chance to take it back. Regardless of how weak or strong Russia's military is, Ukraine does not stand a chance. Their navy is a joke, completely decimated by the decades of crumbling economy and corruption on every level.

As far as the invasion of Ukraine goes... It will never happen.

I'm not criticizing just observing. There has been a referendum scheduled for May in the fate of the Crimea. All I'm saying instead of this stunt to save face Putin could have waited and rigged the vote. This is a maneuver to show Russians they can be "confident" in Presidet for life Putin.

 

[Storm52]

Life may be normal for some, but the protesters, for what ever reason, probably don't see it in that light. To the Soviets the entire region is their interests.

 

[tim9lives]

Interesting tidbit of history. I found it on Wiki- George V

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_V


"When Tsar Nicholas II of Russia, George's first cousin (their mothers were sisters), was overthrown in the Russian Revolution of 1917, the British government offered political asylum to the Tsar and his family, but worsening conditions for the British people, and fears that revolution might come to the British Isles, led George V to think that the presence of the Russian royals might seem inappropriate in the circumstances.[67]

Despite the later claims of Lord Mountbatten of Burma that Prime Minister Lloyd George was opposed to the rescue of the Russian imperial family, the letters of Lord Stamfordham suggest that it was George V who opposed the rescue against the advice of the government.[68] Advanced planning for a rescue was undertaken by MI1, a branch of the British secret service,[69] but because of the strengthening position of the Bolshevik revolutionaries and wider difficulties with the conduct of the war, the plan was never put into operation.[70] The Tsar and his immediate family remained in Russia, where they were murdered by Bolsheviks in 1918. The following year, Nicholas's mother (George's aunt) Maria Feodorovna (Dagmar of Denmark) and other members of the extended Russian imperial family were rescued from the Crimea by British ships."