Questions for LSP CHP Division

[Nolacopusmc]

Then you should read the rest of it where LA Carry went on to understand my point of view and the fact that I had legit questions. It was a misunderstanding.




Can Cops not tell the difference between threat levels?

Can you see the difference ?

Based on what? How do you know the guys in the below pictures are not as perfectly law-abiding as you? Why should they be questioned and not you?

 

[Nolacopusmc]

There is no way LEO can know the intent of someone with a weapon, regardles of race, dress code, or demeanor. SOme people are obvious threats due to words or actions.

therefore, LEO must, to some extent, view every person with a firearm as a POTENTIAL threat. That is due primarily to our current social climate.

What if someone sees a man walking down the street with a gun, calls it in, and then 911 syas "Sorry sir, that is perfectly legal."
Same man walks into a store, robs it and kills clerk. You know that 911 would be raped for not sending a unit to investigate. the same can be said for little Johnny whitebread standing in line at the Wally World. Is he a threat, probably not, but what if he is.

Now, once he is determined not to be a threat, he should be released with a thank you for his time and an apology for the inconvience.

 

[Narco]

There is no way LEO can know the intent of someone with a weapon, regardles of race, dress code, or demeanor. SOme people are obvious threats due to words or actions.

therefore, LEO must, to some extent, view every person with a firearm as a POTENTIAL threat. That is due primarily to our current social climate.

What if someone sees a man walking down the street with a gun, calls it in, and then 911 syas "Sorry sir, that is perfectly legal."
Same man walks into a store, robs it and kills clerk. You know that 911 would be raped for not sending a unit to investigate. the same can be said for little Johnny whitebread standing in line at the Wally World. Is he a threat, probably not, but what if he is.

Now, once he is determined not to be a threat, he should be released with a thank you for his time and an apology for the inconvience.

Using the terminology as use on OC.org. THEY feel WE are harassing THEM when they are questioned. THEY feel they are above the law, beyond the 911 call for service, beyond the OTHER sheeple who are scared, and do not realize THEIR message is not as widespread as THEY wish it could be. THEY do not realize that the sheeple caller is watching the actions of US, who will complain to the elected officials, who WILL take the bread from our table, roof from OUR head, for not acting/investigating. The only thing they are truley concerned about IMHO making a scene, otherwise THEY would not call ahead to see if the table for 7 can OC..

I am happy to report, I OC on Saturdays at cracka barrel, and do not call ahead for seating. I walk in, sit down with 10-12 others who could or could not be carrying. It is irrelevant. Weren't restaurants about the food anyways?

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Using the terminology as use on OC.org. THEY feel WE are harassing THEM when they are questioned. THEY feel they are above the law, beyond the 911 call for service, beyond the OTHER sheeple who are scared, and do not realize THEIR message is not as widespread as THEY wish it could be. THEY do not realize that the sheeple caller is watching the actions of US, who will complain to the elected officials, who WILL take the bread from our table, roof from OUR head, for not acting/investigating. The only thing they are truley concerned about IMHO making a scene, otherwise THEY would not call ahead to see if the table for 7 can OC..

I am happy to report, I OC on Saturdays at cracka barrel, and do not call ahead for seating. I walk in, sit down with 10-12 others who could or could not be carrying. It is irrelevant. Weren't restaurants about the food anyways?

It is the LEO's fault for not have an "honest profession"

 

[Narco]

It is the LEO's fault for not have an "honest profession"

Yep, becuase we all can't get a undisclosed amount in lawsuits, that we're filed to set case law, for all. I guess motorbikes and being an internet icon is more important than truly accomplishing something for the "THEIR CAUSE"

I met MEM briefly. Not a bad person to talk to, but tactically I think his choice of weapon, holster and body placement is completely wrong. I can see and did visualize how I would actually disarm him if I was a BG. He can do as he pleases, I just think its a bit flashy.

 

[SpeedRacer]

The funny thing about guys like MEM and JD, is they are firm believers in OC because they are the only ones doing it. How do you think JD would react if he walked into Wally World and right there on the feminine hygiene aisle where he's headed is a group of thugged out, pants hanging off their ass gangsta looking types all with Glocks strapped on, legally of course. He'd probably a) **** his pants b) call the police or c) blade at 45 and open fire.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

This one is also a good read. this guy Anty is apparently a less usccessful MEM


ctually more like a JIMMYDEAN.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum26/26339-2.html

 

[XD-GEM]

Wasn't this supposed to be a thread about what to ask LSP CHP?

How about:
1. Does it really cost the LSP $100 to process an application, and if not, then should the fee be altered?

2. Other than during the recent explosion in applications, could the CHP unit use more staff? Or put another way, is a three person staff adequate to handle the normal volume of work in a reasonable time?

3. Why is it so difficult to get fingerprinted in New Orleans (other than in respect to a criminal arrest)?

 

[aroundlsu]

How many apps does LSP process a year? Multiply that by $100. That's how much they have to run the department. Divide by number of employees, operating costs, building costs, printing costs, etc. It is probably nearly a break even situation.

 

[Yrdawg]

OK. Very strange, but as AROUNDLSU was posting his last post, my cell rings and it is Sgt Reavis with LSP CHP Division. Unfortunately he was calling to tell me that my fingerprinting skills suck. While I had him on the phone, I asked him a few things.

Couple of things:

1. Sgt Reavis is very cool to talk to, and he is DEFINITELY ON OUR SIDE. Extremely knowledgeable about second amendment issues and a strong supporter. His comment when asked why they were so backlogged was," It is like a whole population of people suddenly woke up and realized it was time they needed to get a permit, like it wasn't all along" or something to that effect.

2. We began to discuss a few issues that have come up, and here is what he had to say. I have his permission by the way, to release this info, He said he is more than happy to offer any info to make the process go smoothly.

3. They are most definitely backlogged. He has every available minute and resource tied to processing applications. If your app is taking longer than 45-60 days, it is most likely due to bad prints or a background issue.

4. He asked me to stress that while small paragraphs explaining the issues surrounding an arrest help, he does not need letters of recommendation or long letters saying what a great guy you are. There are concrete disqualifies that I will be getting from him shortly such as:
a. 3 felony ARRESTS(not convictions) in en years is a disqualification.
b. 2 Capital Crime ARRESTS (not convictions) is a disqualification
c. Failure to disclose ANY ARREST is a disqualification.

He does not make judgments about people when looking at an application. It is yes or no. They either meet or do not meet the criteria. Any deviation from that is a potential criminal act on his part and not an option.

4. He also asked me to stress that many CHP instructors are saying that the LSP is only interested in felony arrests. THAT IS NOT TRUE. They need all arrest to be disclosed. Even arrests for traffic attachmnets due to unpaid traffic tickets. Not traffic citations, but contempt of cpourt arrests because you did not pay a ticket are an arrest and must be disclosed. They do not disqualify you, but failure to disclose may.

5. To AROUNDLSU's question: You do not need to supply additional copies of your certified disposition paperwork. Simply include a signed letter stating something to the affect "Arrest Dispositions have not changed since last application. Originals submitted 1-1-05."

6. He spoke personally with the ATC(Alcohol, Tobacco Control) for Louisiana. Most restaurants are dual permitted. Short version is you are OK to eat and dine in the restaurant portion, but do not sit in the bar portion. If something happened while you were in the restaurant, the burden of proof would be on the prosecution to prove you had intent to break the law.
Restaurants good, bars bad. But most of us knew that.

7. They are aware of people like MEM and his crew who are planning outings with the specific intent of goading and recording LEO.

To that note, and probably the best part of the conversation, he has already begun working on creating LEO workshops to educate them on the rights of CHP holders. He is also working on a symposium for instructors to get us all on the same page. I am very excited about this. I made the reccomendation of a newsletter every two months or so to all instructors via email giving us a low-down version of what the issues they are facing are, any upcoming changes, and what current delay times are.

8.The parade issue. he is of the opinion that the "in" includes spectators, but he also qualified that with the same requirement for the prosecution to show intent. He said that a permitteee carrying "in good faith" should be OK, but if a shooting occurred, you open yourself up to qualified immunity issues in a tort suit where the burden of proving innocence falls on you.

9. "Why do they need divorce papers" He confirmed what I have been teaching that the reason they request the divorce decree is because many settlements have a parental protection order or child protection order. They request the documents as a way to prove no TRO's exists.

10.If you were out of town for Katrina and came back or if your home was destroyed, but you came back here, you can still use your original address to maintain LA residency. Same thing for combining dorm addresses if you moved around within a college campus. the goal is to prove if you were a legal resident of LA for the previous 15 years.

11.Medical. The general rule is that is your doctor says you are OK to have a gun / operate machinery, you are good to go.

12. Even felons who have had their rights restored will not receive a CHP.

13. he actually used the phrase "your vehicle is an extension of your home" LOL. He qualified that with saying the supreme court has already sustained that you have the same "reasonable expectation of safety" (ie, castle doctrine) in your car as you do your home, but you do not have the same expectation of privacy in your car as you do your home, thus the reason why you cannot drive around naked.

14. He stated that somewhere in the statutes, not in 14:95, is a specific exemption which states one is allowed to carry concealed on their own private property. I will be looking for that one.

15. He did advise that they are cracking down on instructors who are basically certificate mills. They are people working undercover, not necessarily for LSP, that will see what is being done. Dateline type stuff.

16. A CHP instructor does have to attend additional training for his renewal. He can re certify himself with a signed letter stating he is still in good standing with his credentialing body
(POST or NRA)

17. They do look at some of the web forums to see what the vibe in the community is. (BayouShooter was the first one he mentioned.) He was well aware of the MEM, Gonzales CHP holder that saved the LEO, and I think he made a reference to JimmyDean at some point.





***NOTE*** Sgt Reavis is definitely moving the program in the right direction. I personally look forward to the changes he has in mind. He is working on some of the gaps in the program, most which work directly to our benefit and the issues we have raised here.

Please be patient, because he has his people working as hard as he can. FYI, this conversation went well past 5:00 PM, and I could hear is people leaving in the background and he was still working.

Good thread, for the record, I ain't a MEM fan, he had a case but I agree on the undisclosed amount part....any ways

I am sending my renewal in and the part in # 5 above is helpful. I had just written in the app that records had accompanied original app, I'm going to add a letter sayng that divorce and criminal records remain same as with original, no changes, no arrests, no divorces.....should it be notarized ??

Thanks to OP, this is the kinda stuff I read for but the MEM's are entertaining sometimes, just that I wouldn't DO it ( OC ) in a crowd, OC always @ home which is way in the woods

Thanks OP
Dawg

 

[Hitman]

There is no way LEO can know the intent of someone with a weapon, regardles of race, dress code, or demeanor. SOme people are obvious threats due to words or actions.

therefore, LEO must, to some extent, view every person with a firearm as a POTENTIAL threat. That is due primarily to our current social climate.

What if someone sees a man walking down the street with a gun, calls it in, and then 911 syas "Sorry sir, that is perfectly legal."
Same man walks into a store, robs it and kills clerk. You know that 911 would be raped for not sending a unit to investigate. the same can be said for little Johnny whitebread standing in line at the Wally World. Is he a threat, probably not, but what if he is.

Now, once he is determined not to be a threat, he should be released with a thank you for his time and an apology for the inconvience.

Excellent Point.

Reminds me of the same ROE's for overseas being compared to Weapons Condition 1.

"Treat every weapon as if it were loaded."
"Treat every person with a gun as if they were a threat."

I can understand that mentality.

Which is also why cops slam everyone on the scene of a crime until it's determined who's who, right ?

 

[CCW]

When will LSP release the statistics concerning the number of permits issued? Last year it was issued sometime in March or April as of the end of February. It is June 5 and their site still shows the statistics as of February 28, 2008. I wonder if they are too busy issuing permits and renewals to compile the statistics? It will be interesting to see how many new permits were issued from March '08-Feb. '09.

 

[Storm52]

Brannon: Sorry I asked.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Excellent Point.

Reminds me of the same ROE's for overseas being compared to Weapons Condition 1.

"Treat every weapon as if it were loaded."
"Treat every person with a gun as if they were a threat."

I can understand that mentality.

Which is also why cops slam everyone on the scene of a crime until it's determined who's who, right ?

Your retarded.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

When will LSP release the statistics concerning the number of permits issued? Last year it was issued sometime in March or April as of the end of February. It is June 5 and their site still shows the statistics as of February 28, 2008. I wonder if they are too busy issuing permits and renewals to compile the statistics? It will be interesting to see how many new permits were issued from March '08-Feb. '09.

Good question, I can't wait to see those numbers. I think it is definitely a combination in their recent turnover in leadership and the huge upsurge of applications. I can wait for statistics, since they are working so hard to get permits out.

Hell, I wish I could go volunteer to help.

 

[Hitman]

Your retarded.

What ?

I knew I should have rephrased that.

I didn't mean literaly slam.

Do LEO's not have to gain complete control of the scene ?

How are you not familar with something you just gave mention to in your own post. You must not watch too much TV. You can see it happen on DDisorderly Conduct,COPS, Hot Pursuit, Court TV, Spike, TRU Tv etc.etc. All the time Cops roll up to a domestic disturbance call, cuff everyone, (Once control of the scene is evident) then they determine who's who, and who did what etc.etc.

My comment was not meant to be a thorn in the side

 

[Lizardxxx]

If you already have your fingerprints in the system (ie. former DPS employee, current holder of Security Passport card & TWIC card), do you have to submit them again for your CHP?

 

[LACamper]

I do have a real question/comment or two:

1. I brought up the subject of reception halls recently. It doesn't quite fit the definition of a bar so I would like a clarification. As I mentioned, I'm not (usually!) concerned about events in the hall, but getting to/from, especially in the quarter.

2. I can understand NOT asking for clarifications on things, however, I would much rather have an answer up front than pay the legal bills myself to have it decided in court.

3. I would really like to see the CHP rules adjusted regarding the "within 1000' of a school". Trying to get across town on foot would be practically impossible!

4. On the subject of MEM and OC: I was all for MEM until he settled for enough money to buy a motorcycle. If he were serious about fighting for the right to OC then he should have settled for his legal expenses plus $1. And done it openly. Now I see it as he was trying to profit. The rest of the group is doing it for attention. Unfortunately, done incorrectly it will cause more businesses to address the 'no carry' rule. That's not good. Also, while Jimmydean is an idiot, he has provided us with an almost endless source of entertainment. For that some (not all!) of his antics are forgiven...

5. There is a time and place for OC. Sometimes even a necessity. Before the passage of the CHP program I did it on occasion out of necessity. Education of the local police forces is as essential for CHP holders as it is for the OC crowd. Due to the delays in renewals it is not impossible for any one of us to end up out of active status for a brief, very nervous, time.

6. Please express to the CHP group at LSP how much we appreciate their efforts. If they need free slave labor tell them to just ask! I'm sure several of us would be happy to come help out for a day occasionally.

7. A website showing the current status of our CHP while being worked on by them would probably cut down on quite a few frantic phone calls from us! They could post by permit number or even just post on what day's mail they are processing.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

What ?

I knew I should have rephrased that.

I didn't mean literaly slam.

Do LEO's not have to gain complete control of the scene ?

How are you not familar with something you just gave mention to in your own post. You must not watch too much TV. You can see it happen on DDisorderly Conduct,COPS, Hot Pursuit, Court TV, Spike, TRU Tv etc.etc. All the time Cops roll up to a domestic disturbance call, cuff everyone, (Once control of the scene is evident) then they determine who's who, and who did what etc.etc.

My comment was not meant to be a thorn in the side

My bad, thought you were making an asanine statement. Remember, COPS is TV, they are not going to show you the things cops do like write reports, listen to people's problems, find runaways. those things make for poor tv. Slam a crack head on a hood, now that is ratings.

Your right, everyone at many scenes has to be considered a suspect until things are figured out, becasue people lie and things are rarely as they seem.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

If you already have your fingerprints in the system (ie. former DPS employee, current holder of Security Passport card & TWIC card), do you have to submit them again for your CHP?

Yes. The only exception is that you do not have to do them again for a renewal. Even if you have a Top Secret clearance, TWIC card, your momma goes in and says you are a good boy, they must have the prints. It is also to help them match that the info on the app is the same person requesting the permit.