Lancer L5 AWM vs. PMAG...might be dumping all my lancers (Dumped my Noveske instead)

[JWG223]

If it makes it better, it makes it better. I'm not tossing or reselling my awm mags. It just makes the rifle more likely not to jam on mag changes or not go into battery. Why not buy mags that reduce friction on the bcg on the forward travel? I don't understand why this is bad practice.

 

[JWG223]

What a waste of money and time to correct 2 failures in 2k+ rounds that you can't be sure of cause. But hey whatever blows your hair back...

I am sure of the cause of the failure I had this weekend. The feed lips dig into the rounds, have no flex, and the bolt release actuated reload failed. Pmags don't have as much "bite" and work better in this area. Lancer already redesigned the feed lips once because of this issue.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Because everything is a trade-off. Metal is stronger. Plastic is "smoother".

Why is it that metal lipped mags were/are/always will be THE standard for firearm magazines? Do you think that the thousands of scientists that have worked on thousands of magazine designs would just be blown away with your findings and wonder what the hell they were thinking?

Or is it more logical that you're way overthinking things that people way smarter than you and I have already figured out? Your rifle does not give a **** about feedlip friction. Do you know there's guys that have shot tens of thousands of trouble free rounds through ARs that have never used a PMag? How is that possible?!

Again, the Pmags are good. But they have their flaws. Don't base your decision on feedlip friction. That's just silly. You're worried about feedlip friction but on the other hand saying Pmags break, but it's okay because it's easy to tell when they're broken. Sounds awesome.

 

[JWG223]

Yes, it is a trade off. Yes, the rifle does seem to care, it jams every now and then on mag changes.
Lancer keeps redesigning their feed lips, so apparently research and product improvement have not died yet. For that matter, why not just use usgi mags? They work just fine. Who cares if you have something more reliable, no9 that s?ems to be the stance I am seeing: stop improving. My question is...why? Clp has worked fine, usgi mags fine, etc. Etc. Why do we diverge? To be better, of course, even if minutely. This costs me nothing, as the pmags are the same cost, so I don't see the fuss.

 

[SpeedRacer]

And Magpul is on their 3rd generation PMag. I'm all for continued inmprovement. And I'm not saying you should choose one over the other. I'm saying "feedlip friction" is just not an issue or basis for decision. Choose the PMag if the smoothness of the feedlips makes you happy, but understand that it comes at a cost of weak, flexible feedlips that are prone to cracking and overinsertion. Of course the new PMags address the overinsertion by putting a chunk of plastic on it to physically stop it from going in to far. It may work, but it still seems like a bubba fix to me. The original PMags were too thick to work in many magwells. So they made the Rev M polymer thinner (weaker). Now they fit in magwells but flexed and cracked too much. So their solution is molding a goofy nub on the mag for the M3. They also made follower and rear opening changes to make the mag compatible with more rifles. And still haven't fixed the original feedlip issue. Just seems like a recipe for more issues IMHO.

Personally, I'll take my chances with metal feedlips from now on.

 

[JWG223]

And Magpul is on their 3rd generation PMag. I'm all for continued inmprovement. And I'm not saying you should choose one over the other. I'm saying "feedlip friction" is just not an issue or basis for decision. Choose the PMag if the smoothness of the feedlips makes you happy, but understand that it comes at a cost of weak, flexible feedlips that are prone to cracking and overinsertion. Of course the new PMags address the overinsertion by putting a chunk of plastic on it to physically stop it from going in to far. It may work, but it still seems like a bubba fix to me. The original PMags were too thick to work in many magwells. So they made the Rev M polymer thinner (weaker). Now they fit in magwells but flexed and cracked too much. So their solution is molding a goofy nub on the mag for the M3. They also made follower and rear opening changes to make the mag compatible with more rifles. And still haven't fixed the original feedlip issue. Just seems like a recipe for more issues IMHO.

Personally, I'll take my chances with metal feedlips from now on.

Very reasonable. Like you said, its all a trade off. However, I have not broken a pmag, but the awm mag has solidly malfunction in my rifle. Maybe I will put some mileage on pmags and see how they hold up more long term? I might end up breaking them.

 

[SpeedRacer]

The AWM in general, or one mag? Do you mark your mags and keep track of which one malfunctioned? And by malfunctioned I mean on the range, not hand cycling at home. No one puts out 100% reliable mags in 100% of production. That's why I recommend ALL mags be function tested before they are trusted. They are cheap, disposable items. If you get a bad one send it back for replacement or just toss it in the trash.

 

[JWG223]

The AWM in general, or one mag? Do you mark your mags and keep track of which one malfunctioned? And by malfunctioned I mean on the range, not hand cycling at home. No one puts out 100% reliable mags in 100% of production. That's why I recommend ALL mags be function tested before they are trusted. They are cheap, disposable items. If you get a bad one send it back for replacement or just toss it in the trash.

I mark them. Different ones have had issue. It has only happened infrequently, though. Still, I view it the same way Mike Pannone views extra strength springs: more forward bcg velocity is better. It helps seat the bolt when the weapon gets dirty. The lancer mags slow the forward momentum of the bcg more than pmags. Most of the time its fine, I know, but better is better, in my book. I am happier not being rough with my mags and having a more reliable rifle vs. tougher mags and a less reliable rifle. In my experience, pmags run better for me, so far. However, maybe when I buy a few and run them, ill discover that they are fragile.

Either way, ill have personal experience to back my choice, put lead down range practicing, and have a good time doing it.

 

[JWG223]

Well, I decided to be rough with a Magpul and a Lancer AWM. Hands down, the Magpul was WAY! tougher. I beat the hell out of the back of the upper part of the mag where the feed-lips join the body. Then I turned it face-bown in a beer-can grip and slammed it repeatedly. All of this into the end of a 25# dumbell in my living-room. After say, 10 or so whacks in each orientation, I was rewarded with about a 1mm crack at a 45* angle from the left feed-lip where it joins the mag-body on the inside of the "V" at follower-height.

Well...that sucks...Lets try an AWM...

After 3 whacks the metal feed lips totally failed. The back of them where it wraps around the mag just broke in two like cheap pop-metal.

Guess which one will still work in a weapon?

This was far from scientific, just using my hands to grab the mag and beat it against the dumbell and all, really cave-man-like, but it did show me that those metal feed-lips on the AWM were not as impressive as I first though, and that that product can and will also fail. Gratuitous pic, although one cannot see the crack in the PMAG. I have to pry at the feed-lips to see it, and I bet it would still perform 100%. Not so much, the AWM.

This is not to say that either mag is junk, or bad, but just that both can and will fail if you bang them around the right way, step on them, drop them fully loaded onto concrete, or whatever.

I don't know if the AWM cracked on the first or third hit, I stopped when it sounded and felt "funny". Same for the PMAG, I think it did it when I inverted it and began slamming the feed-lips into the dumbell, though, if I had to guess.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Bro if you wanna go out an spend a bunch of money on new mags, it's your money spend it. Coming up with stupid unrealistic test to validate yourself is silly.

 

[returningliberty]

Why would you ruin two perfectly decent mags just because?

 

[SpeedRacer]

Why would you ruin two perfectly decent mags just because?

 

[Request Dust Off]

We need fire at some point in the test. When you have to clear your house & it is burning it will be too late to figure out which mag can't take the heat. Technically what is needed is heat but I digress. Light one on fire using an 'accelerant' and then shoot controlled pairs while filming it. Then repeat with the other mag. People will find fault with your methods but don't worry it will make great video. To avoid some nitpicking make sure the 'accelerant' is use in equal amount and in the same distribution on the mags. Try to track ambient temp.

 

[JWG223]

Why would you ruin two perfectly decent mags just because?

that was the last awm to prove a jammer when the bolt is released on reloads, and the pmag was/still is my stippling test material before I stipple expensive gear. I destroy problem mags, and sacrificed the pmag before stippling my shield 9mm.

 

[JWG223]

We need fire at some point in the test. When you have to clear your house & it is burning it will be too late to figure out which mag can't take the heat. Technically what is needed is heat but I digress. Light one on fire using an 'accelerant' and then shoot controlled pairs while filming it. Then repeat with the other mag. People will find fault with your methods but don't worry it will make great video. To avoid some nitpicking make sure the 'accelerant' is use in equal amount and in the same distribution on the mags. Try to track ambient temp.

I'd love too, but I'm scared the forum will refuse to replace the glock that would be destroyed inevitably.

 

[JWG223]

Is love to come back at you with something witty and all, but I got nothin'.
However, I'll have you know that I ordered a cosmetically blemished upper from noveske and view that as some damn solid personal growth!

 

[JWG223]

Bro if you wanna go out an spend a bunch of money on new mags, it's your money spend it. Coming up with stupid unrealistic test to validate yourself is silly.

both awm and pmag are good kit. I only owned around 15 mags this am. Now I have around thirty. I got the pmags for $10.75 shipped. All in all, I don't see any downside to having bought more mags.

 

[gunz4me]

I was given a P-Mag to try out in either late 2009 or early 2010. I have yet to take it out of the wrapper to try:

 

[slogoat]

Is love to come back at you with something witty and all, but I got nothin'.
However, I'll have you know that I ordered a cosmetically blemished upper from noveske and view that as some damn solid personal growth!

This doesn't count! I have a noveske chainsaw lower and the thing looked perfect out the box! Lol

 

[JWG223]

This doesn't count! I have a noveske chainsaw lower and the thing looked perfect out the box! Lol

I...I had Nikita send me a picture.
(Of the upper.... )

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=71n4mh&s=6

*personal growth happening*