I'm obviously not going to change your opinion on this, but by making this statement, you are saying a seller should either check or not check the buyer's residency, whatever they feel like doing. Because there is a federal law saying only in-state resident transfers are allowed, your statement equates to don't be a criminal or do be a criminal, whatever you feel like doing. It's flawed logic and bad advice.
Please explain how ownership and private sale are a “privilege” and not a God given right supported by the constitution.Cavalier attitudes like that are what cause problems for the rest of us who follow the rules (in this case) for private firearms transactions, which are a privilege, not a right..
That's not correct, and a total misrepresentation of what he's saying. It's not required by law to keep a record of a sale, nor to ask for ID, in a transfer. It is only illegal to transfer to any person "the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe resides in State other than that in which the transferor resides." (GCA '68) If the buyer gives you no reason to believe they don't live here, it's legal. Period. If he gives you any indication he's not from here, it's illegal. If you sold a gun to a Texan who told you he was from LA and you believed him, that's not illegal (on your end) per the letter of the law. What they buyer did is illegal, but the seller should be fine.
Checking ID's or doing a bill of sale are still good plans to help you stay on the right side of this line, but in no way are they required. And each person may decide for themselves whether to ask for ID, or make a copy of the ID, or to do a bill of sale, or to ask if they are a resident, or not to ask at all, or to only sell to Louisiana CHP holders, or to pay an FFL to NICS check your buyer. All of those are legal options. Based on what YOU are comfortable with. To each their own.
So before you go slandering this man and accusing him of advocating illegal activity, get your facts straight.
Please explain how ownership and private sale are a *privilege* and not a God given right supported by the constitution.
There are a lot of things left out of this discussion. Knowingly selling any item to someone who is prohibited by federal law from purchasing the item would have to be proven in a court of law.
Even if a seller asked for ID, the buyer might produce any form of ID that has been falsified. BUT, there are no laws stating that you have to keep a record of the transaction or verify any facts before the sale. There is zero burden of proof placed on the seller if he made the sale in good faith. Can or might the ATF bust down the seller’s door and carry him away? Of course they may. Law enforcers will do whatever they see fit. Doesn’t mean that they will win the case and not lose the lawsuit following.
The constitution...includes a lot more than simply the 2nd amendment. I simply stated *the constitution*. It was you who read 2nd amendment. Many folks nowadays read other than what is meant and before you know it, they follow laws that aren’t there. Those people have been conditioned. They are trained. Much like sheep.I may be wrong, but I do not believe the 2nd amendment says anything about protecting private transfers of weapons. I bet laws forcing all private transfers to go through an FFL would pass, even in LA. Especially if the media shows that private sellers are rampantly playing it loose and easy with their sales.
We are not talking about determining who is prohibited. As a civilian, you cannot know that. We are talking about determining residency. You don't have to keep a record of the transfer, but not asking about residency is not due diligence. Asking to see an LA license is something you can easily do and then claim you did your due diligence. If it was a fake ID, it's back on the buyer. It's more about CYA than anything else.
First off, I believe you are referring to libel, not slander, and I am doing neither. We are discussing what is opinion and what is law.
Every bit of information on the ATF site states that federal law prohibits the the personal transfer of weapons to an non-state resident. There is no discretion mentioned. There is discretion mentioned for your personal determination of whether they are a prohibited person or not. Bottom line is that under normal day-to-day circumstances, nobody (ATF) cares, until they do.... Then, have fun explaining why you sold that AR used in a mass shooting to a MS resident.
From ATF website - To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may transfer a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her State, provided the transferor does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the transferee is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. There may be State laws that regulate intrastate firearm transactions. A person considering transferring a firearm should contact his or her State Attorney General’s Office to inquire about the laws and possible State or local restrictions.
2. May I lawfully transfer a firearm to a friend who resides in a different State?
Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual
who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person to lawfully
transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a
Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or she may then
receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background
check. More information can be obtained on the ATF website at www.atf.gov and
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html. The GCA provides an exception from this
prohibition for temporary loans or rentals of firearms for lawful sporting purposes. Thus, for
example, a friend visiting you may borrow a firearm from you to go hunting. Another exception is
provided for transfers of firearms to nonresidents to carry out a lawful bequest or acquisition by
intestate succession. This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who
inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent. See 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5).
I just spoke to the ATF office in Louisiana. It IS LEGAL to sell a handgun to an out of state resident, and recommends a bill of sale with the following: serial number of weapon, Id number and issuing state and the date of release to the buyer with signatures. The law states The buyer has to be over 21, no felonies or misdemeanor domestic abuse/violence charges. It is the buyers responsibility to abide by his/her resident states laws. Did not ask about shipping either. So there you have the law. Your comfort level will vary.
I may be wrong, but I do not believe the 2nd amendment says anything about protecting private transfers of weapons. I bet laws forcing all private transfers to go through an FFL would pass, even in LA. Especially if the media shows that private sellers are rampantly playing it loose and easy with their sales.
We are not talking about determining who is prohibited. As a civilian, you cannot know that. We are talking about determining residency. You don't have to keep a record of the transfer, but not asking about residency is not due diligence. Asking to see an LA license is something you can easily do and then claim you did your due diligence. If it was a fake ID, it's back on the buyer. It's more about CYA than anything else.
I just spoke to the ATF office in Louisiana. It IS LEGAL to sell a handgun to an out of state resident, and recommends a bill of sale with the following: serial number of weapon, Id number and issuing state and the date of release to the buyer with signatures. The law states The buyer has to be over 21, no felonies or misdemeanor domestic abuse/violence charges. It is the buyers responsibility to abide by his/her resident states laws. Did not ask about shipping either. So there you have the law. Your comfort level will vary.
I'm obviously not going to change your opinion on this, but by making this statement, you are saying a seller should either check or not check the buyer's residency, whatever they feel like doing. Because there is a federal law saying only in-state resident transfers are allowed, your statement equates to don't be a criminal or do be a criminal, whatever you feel like doing. It's flawed logic and bad advice.
Someone @ the ATF doesn't know what they are talking about. It is legal to sell to someone out of state, but it must go through a FFL. You cannot do a private sale to someone who resides in another state.
Someone @ the ATF doesn't know what they are talking about. It is legal to sell to someone out of state, but it must go through a FFL. You cannot do a private sale to someone who resides in another state.
If I'm not mistaken, for handguns, it must go through an FFL in the state in which the Buyer resides.
For individual to individual sales, all firearms, excluding antiques, must go through an FFL in the buyer's state of residence if the buyer and seller reside in different states.
If I'm not mistaken, for handguns, it must go through an FFL in the state in which the Buyer resides.
What if you drive there and the sale takes place in the buyer's state?
And it is not uncommon for The Alphabet Agencies and their Friends to be at Gun Shows and on Firearm Forums.
If you want to sell to someone who lives in another state, that may be one way to do it. You drive to their state, go to the FFL, and do the transfer. Depending on the state.