Cliven Bundy Cattle Rancher Situation

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  • Vanilla Gorilla

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    The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) may best be described as a small agency with a big mission: To sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of America’s public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations. It administers more public land – over 245 million surface acres – than any other Federal agency in the United States. Most of this land is located in the 12 Western states, including Alaska. The BLM also manages 700 million acres of sub-surface mineral estate throughout the nation.

    The BLM’s multiple-use mission, set forth in the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976, mandates that we manage public land resources for a variety of uses, such as energy development, livestock grazing, recreation, and timber harvesting, while protecting a wide array of natural, cultural, and historical resources, many of which are found in the BLM's 27 million-acre National Landscape Conservation System. The conservation system includes 221 Wilderness Areas totaling 8.7 million acres, as well as 16 National Monuments comprising 4.8 million acres.

    The BLM does its complex and challenging work with an annual budget of more than $1 billion and a workforce of about 10,000 full-time employees. The BLM is one of a handful of Federal agencies that generates more revenue for the United States than it spends. For example, in Fiscal Year 2012, nearly $5 billion will be generated by activities on BLM-managed lands, including an estimated $4.3 billion from onshore oil and gas development, with about half of those revenues going to the states where the mineral leasing occurred.
     

    Leonidas

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    Slidell
    Yea I hear ya. But who knows who owned what in 1850?

    Good chance it was tribal land in 1850. So, the Crow, Blackfoot, Shoshone etc owned it, until the government claimed it, most likely in violation of covenants contained in a treaty.

    The push onto reservations didn't really gain steam until after the war for southern independence ended.
     

    SpeedRacer

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    Mandeville, LA
    Good chance it was tribal land in 1850. So, the Crow, Blackfoot, Shoshone etc owned it, until the government claimed it, most likely in violation of covenants contained in a treaty.

    The push onto reservations didn't really gain steam until after the war for southern independence ended.

    Then I say evict the cows AND the turtles and give it back to them.
     

    Vanilla Gorilla

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    Good chance it was tribal land in 1850. So, the Crow, Blackfoot, Shoshone etc owned it, until the government claimed it, most likely in violation of covenants contained in a treaty.

    The push onto reservations didn't really gain steam until after the war for southern independence ended.

    I think your tribes and geography are confused. Clark County Nevada. Piautes.
     

    VeedUp

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    I think it is just a big pissing match now, but if he has grazed his cattle there for as long as he says, then why not work something out where he still pays to graze, but use sectioned off areas to rotate grazing, 500 cows on that much land is hardly going to deplete it, but he needs the water source for the cattle, I believe the tortoises and the cows can live there peacefully. But the Government don't negotiate with people like Cliven Bundy, it would make them look weak.
     

    Hitman

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    Lake Charles
    ...and it would seem that this isn't the first showdown between Mormons(Cliven Bundy's Family)
    and the Federal government IN THIS PART of the Country...and about land and cattle.
    See Utah Wars

    The Bundy's also have history with the Paiute's
    http://www.nps.gov/para/forteachers/upload/Total-Final-Curriculum.pdf


    Now the Gov. and State Senator are getting involved.
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...s-over-treatment-cattle-rancher-cliven-bundy/

    Apparently it would seem that Bundy isn't the only citizen
    who has had run-ins with what the Senator described as the,
    "over-reaching BLM".
     

    Hitman

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    Lake Charles
    From FORBES;
    The dispute in question goes back to 1993, when the BLM cut the grazing rights of the rancher in question, Mr. Cliven Bundy, from a herd of thousands of head of cattle to one of no more than 150 head in order to *protect* a species of desert tortoise that inhabits the same area of the state. Most mainstream news media reports on this story naturally did not inform their readers of this fact, or of the fact that this tiny herd allotment would be spread over the 158,000 acres of land to which Bundy held the grazing rights.

    When one understands these key facts, one realizes that such a tiny herd of cattle on such an enormous space would have no impact at all on the desert tortoise or any other plant or animal that lives there, and that no rancher could possibly make any sort of a living running such a tiny herd. Thus, the obvious conclusion is that BLM rendered its absurd decision with the clear expectation of running the Bundys off the land entirely. And that is a very reasonable conclusion to reach. After all, Mr. Bundy is in fact the *last man standing* here – the BLM strategy has worked so well that every other rancher with grazing rights in the region has given up and abandoned what had been their family’s way of life, in many cases, for generations.

    The rest of the article is very interesting
    with facts no regular media seem to be covering.
    (For them it's all about the (Poor Rancher vs the Feds)

    The Forbes Article goes deeper than that.

    This is where it being MORE about some Rancher not paying Fees comes into play.

    Nor should it be acceptable to anyone in a civil society for the federal government to willfully and knowingly take actions that destroy American families and their ways of life. And it’s not just grazers in Nevada who are under assault thanks to enforcement decisions taken by regulators under the ESA, this sort of thing is taking place all over the country. The entire timber industry of Oregon was destroyed in the late 1980s in order to *protect* a sub-species of spotted owl. During the Carter Administration in the late 1970s, the Tennessee Valley Authority was forced to modify or abandon billions of dollars in projects to *protect* the snail darter. As we pointed out a few weeks ago, desperate farmers in Southern California last year had to sit by and watch their crops wither as the feds forced the state to just release more than 95,000 acre feet of fresh water and let it flow to the Pacific Ocean in order to *protect* a sub-species of smelt.

    If you’re wondering why I keep putting the word *protect* in quotes, it’s because the dirty secret of the ESA is that its efforts to *protect* plants and animals have over the years resulted in a not-too-admirable success rate of a little over 1 percent. That’s not a typo.



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    oleheat

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    Let's see.....Miserable Just Kill Me Somebody Tortoise with no redeeming qualities I can think of, or cattle- which have many redeeming qualities involving my BBQ pit.


    Let me think about it....
    hmmm9uh.gif
     

    Emperor

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    This issue is being over complicated by all this mumbo jumbo.

    The intent of democrats in power (particularly this cabal and as long as it doesn't affect them personally), is to weaken the structure of white private business in America. Does anyone really believe that they, as people; give a rats ass about the animals they are espousing to protect? I guarantee, if one of Nancy "Dingbat" Pelosi's vineyards was the home of the last know living, Panda on Earth; that animals organs would be on their way to China in vac-pack bags so fast, the news would have never heard about it.

    Over-regulation is strangling the entire private business structure. Now (though this is not the case here), they are taking legitimately owned private property with it.

    There is no way! None! That these phony democrat politicians believe this **** they are serving up day after day!
     

    Hitman

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    Lake Charles
    Let's see.....Miserable Just Kill Me Somebody Tortoise with no redeeming qualities I can think of, or cattle- which have many redeeming qualities involving my BBQ pit.


    Let me think about it....
    hmmm9uh.gif


    Well like I mentioned earlier, it's not near as cut and (dry) as it seems on the surface.
    Federal branches are trying to do their jobs....
    a Rancher is trying to do what he thinks is right.....

    BUT IN THE END! it should not be forgotten, that the ROOT of the issue
    is about a DAMN TURTLE! and a bunch of tree hugging hippies worshiping nature to keep it alive.

    :doh:
     

    Hitman

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    Over-regulation is strangling the entire private business structure.

    Perhaps a topic of another discussion, but I know that all too well.
    Small Business owners are getting WORKED. I've got a few in my family,
    and it seems like over the years, they just slowly but surely get the life choked out of them
    and they just lose the passion to deal with it and give up.

    Don't even get me started on the IRS and small business......wusaa.......I could tell some angry stories about that harassment....


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    Dishonored

    Hunter
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    I will side with the Governor and Senator of Nevade when I say that, BLM, is over-stepping their authority right now in how they are handling this. I dont care if the land is "unclaimed". In history I learned they had people known as squatters. They claimed land and protected it, there wasn' any land deeds being written then. It is a shame the man is unable to provide proof the land is his and he must now use federal land. However, I read in an article that his fellow ranchers (surrounding) were slowy pushed out. Which is he stopped paying his fees. Why would he pay to fund his own outing?

    What else is the man suppose to do at this point? He seems to have the support of local residents and state officials. We all know how powerful federal programs can be when they want too.... all to protect a turtle? seems like a cover for a much much different agenda.

    ***Hudia said the few legal routes Bundy could have taken probably wouldn’t have helped him in his quest to use federal property for free.

    *His legal recourse was to appeal the denial of his permit, but he has done that, and lost. He didn’t have much of a chance because the permit process is largely at the discretion of the Bureau of Land Management, and courts won’t overturn their permit decision without very strong evidence,* Hudia said. *Most of the time the courts will defer to the Bureau.****
     
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    Emperor

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    Where did those blacks come from? :mamoru:

    That's the kind of clout Mr. Bundy needs! Let them start tasing the blacks, letting the dogs loose; and it's Selma all over again! :p
     
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