I fear for our country

[Whitebread]

What are you talking about? This is EXACTLY the time to get pissed off. I do want a third option. Voting for it is part of how you build one. Voting against non-conservative republicans is exactly how you hold their feet to the fire. The definition of insanity? That's rich in this context. Bro, I have seen the things you post. You are a libertarian at heart. Let go of your fear!

It's not a fear it's a rational expectation of a guaranteed outcome. If even a small portion of voters ditch Trump and go third party Hildabeast wins in a landslide. There is literally no chance in hell for a libertarian to win nationally right now. The party has to be built it's not just people it's organizations. Winning even a state election takes a substantial "ground game". If you want to entertain forming a ground game it starts at the end of the election cycle not at the primary cycle or just before Election Day. I have family friends who have participated in local politics back home. Running for even a county position takes nearly two years. I would gladly vote third rail as a winning proposition.

 

[Whitebread]

Come to the dark side Whitebread!!!!!

Embrace the two-sided coin of Libertarianism: Private Property Rights and the Non-Aggression Principle.

lol don't I have enough bullseyes on my back?

 

[DAVE_M]

Come to the dark side Whitebread!!!!!

Embrace the two-sided coin of Libertarianism: Private Property Rights and the Non-Aggression Principle.

And legal weed.... ya know... cuz medicine!

 

[Whitebread]

Look I would love to leave every dirtbag turncoat republican laying in the dirt politically that 2,4, and 6 years ago promised to go to or return to Washington and fight Obutthole tooth and nail, but I won't burn down my own house to do it. If Hillary wins our great grandchildren will feel the effects. If Trump wins he will likely embarrass us at every turn, but hopefully at the end of four years hopefully we will have something that still resembles the "land of the free". And for the record I would entertain helping in an effort to develop a party in this state that is more in line with our beliefs.

 

[sliguns]

And legal weed.... ya know... cuz medicine!

Is that why you think Libertarians want to legalize marijuana?

 

[Whitebread]

Is that why you think Libertarians want to legalize marijuana?

Yeah personal liberty is lost on a large portion of people with "conservative ideas".

 

[AK shooter]

Look I would love to leave every dirtbag turncoat republican laying in the dirt politically that 2,4, and 6 years ago promised to go to or return to Washington and fight Obutthole tooth and nail, but I won't burn down my own house to do it. If Hillary wins our great grandchildren will feel the effects. If Trump wins he will likely embarrass us at every turn, but hopefully at the end of four years hopefully we will have something that still resembles the "land of the free". And for the record I would entertain helping in an effort to develop a party in this state that is more in line with our beliefs.

What would Trump do that would be more embarrassing than the last 8 years?

 

[Whitebread]

What would Trump do that would be more embarrassing than the last 8 years?

Great point.

 

[AK shooter]

He has excelled at everything he has done. He knows how to work with people, make deals and make money. Washington is full of corruption and needs to be cleaned up.

 

[Whitebread]

He has excelled at everything he has done. He knows how to work with people, make deals and make money. Washington is full of corruption and needs to be cleaned up.

I won't rehash this, but I have no problem saying he is better than hilldabeast.

 

[JoeLiberty]

Yeah personal liberty is lost on a large portion of people with "conservative ideas".

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about^^^
You're tired of Republicans and phony conservatives not doing what they say they will and not even lining up that well with your views in the first place. And the way to change that is to keep voting Republican??? What was that definition of insanity again?

 

[Whitebread]

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about^^^
You're tired of Republicans and phony conservatives not doing what they say they will and not even lining up that well with your views in the first place. And the way to change that is to keep voting Republican??? What was that definition of insanity again?

I know I know. I would gladly vote for a true libertarian if he had a snowballs chance. But it starts at the state and local level. We have to get the true conservatives to defect in mass. It's basically a hostile takeover. You got to get a large enough voting block take control and force out current management. But it starts by "buying shares" or flipping small elections and getting current elected officials to flip.

If you want to take Microsoft from Bill Gates you don't show up to a board meeting with your hundred or so shares and demand he step down you buy and buy and buy and petition individual shareholders and board members until you get a voting block. You don't need 51% just enough to influence.

 

[JoeLiberty]

Or make the republicans lose enough votes that they realize to start winning them back and winning elections they have to meet our demands. I don't have to get everyone to stop voting how they've been doing all their lives. Thats not reasonable. What we can do with a relatively small number of people is hold the party hostage.

 

[Whitebread]

The hardest part is going to be getting incumbents to deny themselves the RNC money and influence for their reelection campaigns. But the answer to that is term limits and spending limitations on the campaign, the PACs, and the party. If you slay those two beast, sky is the limit.

I know a libertarian just said limit what people can do with their money and their votes. But the money doesn't belong to "people" it belongs to not-for-profit entities created solely to broker influence and power i.e. win elections. Secondly our founders didn't care much for political life. Being a public servant was a thankless job. No real perks and the pay sucked. General George Washington when asked to be president was quoted saying "haven't I done enough for my country" (I may have butchered that but it's off the top of my head). Term limits were considered at the time but the general consensus was "just who the hell would want to do this anyways."

 

[Whitebread]

Or make the republicans lose enough votes that they realize to start winning them back and winning elections they have to meet our demands. I don't have to get everyone to stop voting how they've been doing all their lives. Thats not reasonable. What we can do with a relatively small number of people is hold the party hostage.

But that's like trashing Microsoft to the point Mac takes the market share and now it doesn't matter who is on the board at Microsoft because we distoryed our company.

 

[Whitebread]

The party is already being held hostage by the neocons and the Media boot lickers. I mean do you not recall the bull**** demands Paul Ryan made to become speaker. And the nutless leadership that lead to the Orangeman's stepping down? The handful of good conservatives have been demonized from "both sides". The rest just play the stupid game because they are holding the people hostage. They know the conservative base of the party has no viable place to turn, so we are stuck until we build a second option.

 

[Whitebread]

Seriously the quickest way to make the parties irrelevant is term limits and spending caps. One of which Trump is supposedly going to be pushing in his first 100 days. God willing.

 

[Hattrick 22]

Anyone have a site that shows non bias/legit polling results?

 

[Whitebread]

Anyone have a site that shows non bias/legit polling results?

Project five thirty eight may be the best bet

 

[bigtattoo79]

The hardest part is going to be getting incumbents to deny themselves the RNC money and influence for their reelection campaigns. But the answer to that is term limits and spending limitations on the campaign, the PACs, and the party. If you slay those two beast, sky is the limit.

I know a libertarian just said limit what people can do with their money and their votes. But the money doesn't belong to "people" it belongs to not-for-profit entities created solely to broker influence and power i.e. win elections. Secondly our founders didn't care much for political life. Being a public servant was a thankless job. No real perks and the pay sucked. General George Washington when asked to be president was quoted saying "haven't I done enough for my country" (I may have butchered that but it's off the top of my head). Term limits were considered at the time but the general consensus was "just who the hell would want to do this anyways."

I think politicians are doing exactly what our founders thought they would. Now I bet the founders would be blown away by what "we the people" are doing or rather not doing.