Sen. Sessions: 'Deliberate Plan by President' to Collapse U.S. Law Enforcement System

[madwabbit]

If I had half of the money I pay in federal taxesi could comfortably raise another child.

that day when you look at your paycheck and realize that you're paying more in taxes than you used to make.

and yeah, metaphorically seal the border and send them home by discontinuing ALL benefits for illegals and deporting their butts the first time they break the law. If you want an auto-in, apply for a green card legally then enlist in the US military. If you're willing to do the paperwork THEN serve, I say welcome to America senor Lopez.

 

[Leonidas]

The perfect object lesson about market forces at work in labor markets is SE Louisiana, post Katrina. Burger flippers were making 2-3 dollars/hour more. Why? Because more were needed than available. The market will find equilibrium, absent pernicious outside influences.

Americans first. Then, maybe others.

 

[Hitman]

My last on kids...I promise :P

Please PM Response

People want to make sure they can provide a quality lifestyle for the children they bring in this world.

...I've seen young couple use that excuse
right up until the point where they can no longer even have children.

The COST(Financially) of children has always been INFLATED.
Even my mom had me convinced we wouldn't make it 'IF' ...etc.etc...

I can tell you that I was incredibly surprised on how little we raise our kids on....and they lack NOTHING.

Yet I've seen plenty of my peers struggling to make ends meet with one kid,
but yet BOTH parents work......b/c it's all about priorities.
Grocery shopping vs Pizza (Hell it cost me damn near $30+ to feed my family Brothers Gas Station pizza! )

When you really think about it. What does
'Quality Lifestyle" mean for your child?

Once you've raised a few kids, you'll see exactly just how much EXCESS they really have.
Way more than you or I would have ever dreamed of as a kid.

So what does it really mean?
From birth to teen, what does 'Quality Lifestyle' mean to a child in your eyes?
so much so that you must be the infamous phrase of "Financially Stable' before creating one.

I'm not being a smartass here, I'm genuinely interested in young adults ideas around this topic.
Like I said, I talk to many young couples about this topic all the time.
Their answers are usually very similar, they pretty much say the same thing
and likely so b/c they are all part of the same generation.

Yet talking to them after 7 years of marriage and 2 kids later,
and they're singing a different tune.

Most, like myself, can't believe how over-blown the 'COST' of children actually was.
...and all share the same response, "Financially Stable" in order to have kids is a myth, you'll always want more,
and you'll see that bar of 'Stabilness' continue to rise as you get closer to it.

Just calling it like I see it.
VERY rare is it that I hear "I'm glad we waited until we were 35-40 years old to start having kids".
Of course there are exceptions, even a couple in Bayoushooter.
But it's not the norm and brings fourth a whole new plethora of challenges.

Please PM Response

/

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Labor is subject to market forces, just like any other resource. You say its good to have the illegals here. They fill the lower paying jobs. Could it be that the lower paying jobs remain lower paying because the supply of labor is greater than the demand for it. Without the illegals the cost of labor would rise. That means the income of the lowest earners would increase. It would become worthwhile to many to forsake the government teat for a job. Look at the whining about unemployment. Well duh. Keep flooding the market. Keep paying benefits. Keep unemployment high. Keep paying higher taxes. Is it possible that the result of increasing income at the lowest level, even though prices will rise accordingly will be more than offset by lower "free shot" payouts.

Sorry about how shitty things are in Mexico, but to quote an administrator here, its not my problem. We fix our problems, they fix theirs.

While on the surface this approach would seem to make sense it fails on two fronts; Those jobs in America have never been done worked by free market labor. Historically have been serviced by slaves, indentured servants, marginalized citizens, and immigrants. Always. Since The Colonial period to the present. The current Latino Population is just the current incarnation. Secondly you can't staunch the flow of illegals so employers will always have a cheaper labor pool as an alternative to the free market one. Legal Latin labor on farms and in shipyards isn't working below market value, the difference is its willing to work. Shipyards hiring Mexican Welders who have Visa's and are paying taxes are actually paying more for that labor then they would if they were hiring US Citizens. The unfortunate reality is Gringo's don't want those jobs.


In order to make labor a market priced commodity you would have to stem the flow of clandestine labor OR sanction the employers that hire it. Punishing employers is a political third rail. All ways has been. Notice how little talk you hear about dealing with the immigration issue North of The Border? It's easy and popular to talk about dealing with Border Security. It is a White Whale and it doesn't adversely effect anybody's constituents.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

that day when you look at your paycheck and realize that you're paying more in taxes than you used to make.

and yeah, metaphorically seal the border and send them home by discontinuing ALL benefits for illegals and deporting their butts the first time they break the law. If you want an auto-in, apply for a green card legally then enlist in the US military. If you're willing to do the paperwork THEN serve, I say welcome to America senor Lopez.

How do we screen for who's illegal and who isn't? National ID Cards? What about respecting the rights of American Citizens who have dark skin and hair? I seem to see a lot of people on the interwebs freaking out about Border Patrol Checkpoints in the interior. I'm not being antagonistic I'm just pointing out the difficulty in having it both ways. You can't have limited government that respects the privacy and rights of individuals while at the same time goes around asking people for their papers and goes into peoples businesses to inspect the providence of their workforce.

 

[madwabbit]

How do we screen for who's illegal and who isn't? National ID Cards? What about respecting the rights of American Citizens who have dark skin and hair? I seem to see a lot of people on the interwebs freaking out about Border Patrol Checkpoints in the interior. I'm not being antagonistic I'm just pointing out the difficulty in having it both ways. You can't have limited government that respects the privacy and rights of individuals while at the same time goes around asking people for their papers and goes into peoples businesses to inspect the providence of their workforce.

to pay taxes and be employed, you need identification.

when charged with a crime, they'll know if its a citizen or not. I don't understand the complication?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

No often times when someone is charged with a crime the arresting agency has no idea if they are a citizen or not. If we are lucky we have a Drivers Licence, that may or may not have the persons real name on it, that may or not be real, that doesn't list citizenship. Checking the Person against the ICE Database will only find info if they have been deported, are on a watch list, or are flagged. There are other databases but local LE is by and large locked out of them and even if they were granted access they are huge and take a long time to check. Secondly lots of Aliens pay Taxes while here legally and then stop when their Visas Expire. Social Security Card Fraud is also RAMPANT. And then it's back to the Gringo employer who has a Landscaping Crew who he pays cash off the books. How are you going to Police him?

 

[madwabbit]

My point is that If we stop feeding strays, maybe they'll be inclined to come around less often. Cut the benefits- we can't afford them.

(unless of course its an election year and its a close run... in which case we will cut defense budgets and retirement programs to make certain that they are well fed and get transportation to the booth to pull the lever.)

 

[Peacemaker]

[QUE=Hitman. ;1370391]My last on kids...I promise :P

Please PM Response



...I've seen young couple use that excuse
right up until the point where they can no longer even have children.

The COST(Financially) of children has always been INFLATED.
Even my mom had me convinced we wouldn't make it 'IF' ...etc.etc...

I can tell you that I was incredibly surprised on how little we raise our kids on....and they lack NOTHING.

Yet I've seen plenty of my peers struggling to make ends meet with one kid,
but yet BOTH parents work......b/c it's all about priorities.
Grocery shopping vs Pizza (Hell it cost me damn near $30+ to feed my family Brothers Gas Station pizza! )

When you really think about it. What does
'Quality Lifestyle" mean for your child?

Once you've raised a few kids, you'll see exactly just how much EXCESS they really have.
Way more than you or I would have ever dreamed of as a kid.

So what does it really mean?
From birth to teen, what does 'Quality Lifestyle' mean to a child in your eyes?
so much so that you must be the infamous phrase of "Financially Stable' before creating one.

I'm not being a smartass here, I'm genuinely interested in young adults ideas around this topic.
Like I said, I talk to many young couples about this topic all the time.
Their answers are usually very similar, they pretty much say the same thing
and likely so b/c they are all part of the same generation.

Yet talking to them after 7 years of marriage and 2 kids later,
and they're singing a different tune.

Most, like myself, can't believe how over-blown the 'COST' of children actually was.
...and all share the same response, "Financially Stable" in order to have kids is a myth, you'll always want more,
and you'll see that bar of 'Stabilness' continue to rise as you get closer to it.

Just calling it like I see it.
VERY rare is it that I hear "I'm glad we waited until we were 35-40 years old to start having kids".
Of course there are exceptions, even a couple in Bayoushooter.
But it's not the norm and brings fourth a whole new plethora of challenges.

Please PM Response

/[/QUOTE]

I'm not talking about cheap Chinese toys. I'm talking about education the cost of education today is staggering.where I live there is no question that in order to give your child half a chance you have to give them Private education. Then college.. It's obvious that you can do whatever you set your mind to. I think most couples today want 2 or 3 children and are able to financially support that number of children. I don't fault any young couple that makes a conscious effort to have no more children than they can afford to give all opportunities available. I'm not talking about pizza and toys and cellphones laptop computers or Xbox.

 

[Leonidas]

Considering the there have been no slaves or indentured servants for 151 years, scratch them off the list. That leaves immigrants and "marginalized citizens." It is ridiculous to say that we cannot staunch the flow of illegals. That leaves the marginalized citizens. Exactly the group we need to address. Your approach leaves them forever consigned to that fate.

Markets always work. ALWAYS.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Show me an example of an effective Immigration Policy that has stopped Illegal Immigration. Anywhere in the world. I'm not being antagonistic I just don't see it as being nearly as easy as you guys think. do I think border control is a part of the solution? Absolutely, but without Systemic Reform it won't ever work. Just like with vice a solution based on Prohibition alone is doomed to fail.

I don't have an approach. I am not peddling a fix. I just think people need to look at the whole problem not the easy painless part. How would you propose we close the border?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

My point is that If we stop feeding strays, maybe they'll be inclined to come around less often. Cut the benefits- we can't afford them.

(unless of course its an election year and its a close run... in which case we will cut defense budgets and retirement programs to make certain that they are well fed and get transportation to the booth to pull the lever.)

While I agree I also think you underestimate the difficulty of determining who in fact is a stray.

 

[Emperor]

While I agree I also think you underestimate the difficulty of determining who in fact is a stray.

Amazon can send packages to millions of people a day, including in Mexico; and then can have those people and places "auto appear" on the next order, and even during Christmas, (and don't even talk about Amazon Prime), but the government can't figure out how to consolidate and verify a database of legal and illegal citizens?!?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Government websites and databases be broken....

 

[Leonidas]

The ComBloc seemed to do a passable job of controlling theirs. Not perfect, but certainly no seive, either.

Not endorsing this, but a 100 yard exclusion zone full of anti-personnel mines would be effective. If, as many say, immigration is a matter of national security, that could be discussed as an addition to the mix. I don't want to blow up a bunch of campesinos. Give plenty of warning of the danger in crossing. Then like many here say...stupid games, stupid prizes.

We do Mexico no favor by allowing their regime to shift its problems to us, thereby facilitating their refusal to to address their shortcomings.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I think your oversimplifying Mexico they are absolutely confronting their Narco-Trafficking problem. Even though most people would say we are the root cause of that problem via consumption.

The Combloc wasn't as successful as people generally assume. Especially in the more remoter, rural, and rugged areas like the Greek Border with Bulgaria and The Russo-Finnish Border. As to the land mines see my early notes on the DMZ. Where there is a will there is a way. Another example is the Soviets EXTENSIVELY mining the mountain passes between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

 

[Hitman]

Another example is the Soviets EXTENSIVELY mining the mountain passes between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Which sort of bit us in the ass

Can't remember how many tons of Soviet Mines were collected and blown in Afghanistan.
Tons!

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

How secure did 1st MARDIV make Iraq's Western Border?

 

[Hitman]

How secure did 1st MARDIV make Iraq's Western Border?

?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

The answer is despite their best efforts not very. Too rugged, too vast, too remote.