I agree with Jack. In my own shooting life I've had to move to shooting with my left eye because of my right eye becoming too weak to see the sights. The move didn't bother my groups and It wasn't hard to adjust. Been shooting for over 50 years and still love to smell powder burning. Continue on, practice lots and enjoy.
Thoughts on my first time at the range today
- Thread starter samdajellybeenie
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Good pointers for pistol shooting right there. Guess I failed to mention that we shoot both pistols and rifles. The same technique will not work with rifles. So, rather than teach him two different methods of shooting, he developed the reflexes in his weak eye. Now, he has no eye dominance issues at all. We also practice shooting left-handed (left-eyed). Just like a fighter with a weak left trains it up so he can hit hard with both hands.
For long guns, he should shoot them with whatever hand corresponds to his dominant eye. That is also covered in the article. Someone who is new to shooting doesn't have any habits, as such it is easier to teach them to shoot long guns with their non dominant hand and dominant eye than the other way around. Again, they've been seeing their whole life. This would work out particularly well for this person, it would cause him to shoot right handed and most guns long gun controls are set for right handed shooters.
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. That article has the comments to prove it. For everyone I've ever shot with, holding any firearm non-dominant-handed is awkward, much less shooting it. In my mind, learning to shoot wrong-handed should be left up to advanced training. Learning trigger control and stance is paramount, and much easier with the dominant side of your body. After all, you've been using your dominant hand all your life, the eye is easier to train.
For a first-timer, my right-handed son's first instinct was to hold it right-handed and lean his head over to sight with his left eye. As a BSA range instructor, it was a common occurance. So common, in fact, that there was a shoebox in the safety supply box with pairs of shooting glasses that already had tape squares on one of the lenses. I've gotten a few kids from "ready to quit" to qualifying with this technique. So, it definitely works for some people and is a viable option for OP's consideration. If he wants to shoot rifles right-handed with ease, that is.
Like Ford vs Chevy, there are simply different schools of thought on this. There are also varying degrees of cross-eye dominance, which may help determine the best route for him to take. Bottom line is everyone is different and he should try different proven methods, then stick with whatever makes him most comfortable and consistently on paper.
http://ffz.thetruthaboutguns.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=357 (Kirsten Weiss q&a)
http://pistol-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-7479.html
https://www.usashooting.org/library/Instructional/Rifle/Rifle_jan_feb_2011.pdf
http://www.guns.com/2013/09/25/dealing-cross-dominance/
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...t-hand-and-eye-dont-match-which-do-you-choose
http://www.floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?41114-Eye-to-Hand-Dominance-poll/page5
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Little synopsis of the ones I read.
#1. Do what you feel like, but:
#2. Random people on the internet(I have no idea of the value of their opinion) mostly say to shoot rifle with the non dominant hand.
#3. The people who always wear blinders in competition still suggest shooting support side unless the level of eye dominance is very weak. Side note: blinders are great for static target shooting like they're doing, but if you ever need your gun outside of the range you'll either not have blinders or will be cutting off most of the visual information coming to your brain.
#4. Guns.com says should shoot on your dominant eyed side or as a less reccomended alternative you can go back to blinders.
#5. Field and stream says:
#6 Same as #2.
The general concensus and what I'm saying pretty much fall in line. You CAN try blocking the dominant eye, however you are either trying to retrain an entire lifetime of vision, or you can learn a tool in the same way a right handed shooter would. If you've spent years shooting a rifle on the non dominant eyes side switching might be an issue, but for someone who has never shot a rifle and has never learned it one way should not have an issue learning it either way as far as their hands are concerned. This should be even more apparent when you look at the number of shooters who are shooting a rifle ambidextrously.
The use of blinders trains someone to shoot in a way that requires equipment most of us don't wear every day. While the idea of removing extra information coming to the brain is valid in competitive target shooting, it is not practical in real life where there is more going on than just you and a little paper circle.
I'm right handed and right eye dominant, I shoot a pistol right handed, right only, or left only, bringing the pistol to my dominant eye for all three. I shoot a rifle right handed or left handed and bring the rifle to the corresponding eye. I almost always shoot with both eyes opened, unless I've been shooting all day, I'm shooting rifle left handed, and I'm in an abnormal position, this relates more to eye fatigue than anything.
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Dude, you're cherry-picking and treating this as a black-and-white issue. It all comes down to the individual, let the shooter pick the one that's best for him.
USA Shooting: "Unfortunately, to complicate matters for coaches, there are also degrees of eye dominance with individuals ranging from strongly to weakly dominant and the fact that dominance can change due to fatigue. Shooters who have strong eye dominance on the same side as their preferred hand are a simple case. They shoot from the preferred shoulder. The next segment comprises those who are weakly dominant on the same side as their preferred hand. These shooters may be confused by a double vision of the front sight and need to block the extraneous information coming into that eye. The third group includes new shooters who are weakly cross-dominant and may be able to shoot from their preferred hand side but will definitely need to block the confusing visual image. You should also try shooting from the opposite shoulder to see if these shooters can perform better. If they are strongly cross-dominant it is probably best to shoot from the shoulder of the preferred eye. These cases are easy to spot because shooters will try to see through the sights with the opposite eye and forcing their head into an unnatural position. Often made of an opaque material like target paper or a translucent material like plastic milk carton, an occluder is an object that blocks some of the field of view reaching the non-shooting eye.
Field and Stream: "Some people, like my son John, are center-dominant, which is like being ambidextrous, but instead of two equally strong hands he has two equally strong eyes. For him the answer is blocking out one eye, as seen in the picture. Everyone else should shoot with both eyes open."
Guns.com: "Unfortunately, the best way to handle cross-dominance in long gun shooting is probably to shoot with your non-dominant hand, mounting the firearm on the same shoulder as your dominant eye, although many shooters advocate shooting with a patch over their dominant eye or shooting glasses, one author suggests. What plainly doesn’t work is leaning your head way over the stock to line up your dominant eye with the sights. If you don’t believe me, go grab a long gun, mount it to your dominant shoulder, and try to sight in using your cross-dominant eye. It’s really not an option. "
Some internet dude: "I too am left-eyed right-handed. I've run into a dozen or so other cross-dominant shooters over the years, and no two of us really sorted out the same doctrine with rifles & pistols. The trick, as you've discovered already, is to recognize when you're not improving, and mix things up to see if improvement results."
Probably the best write-up I found was by Kirsten Joy Weiss, in response to an internet Q&A posting:
To sum it up, as I already said, there are different viable approaches to solving the problem. There is a lot of gray area, and everyone has their own personal preference. There is no hard and fast rule to this, this is Ford vs. Chevy or AR vs. AK or Glock vs 1911. Well, you know what? I like em all! I'm not saying that the option you prefer is wrong, just that it's not the ONLY option as you contend.
USA Shooting: "Unfortunately, to complicate matters for coaches, there are also degrees of eye dominance with individuals ranging from strongly to weakly dominant and the fact that dominance can change due to fatigue. Shooters who have strong eye dominance on the same side as their preferred hand are a simple case. They shoot from the preferred shoulder. The next segment comprises those who are weakly dominant on the same side as their preferred hand. These shooters may be confused by a double vision of the front sight and need to block the extraneous information coming into that eye. The third group includes new shooters who are weakly cross-dominant and may be able to shoot from their preferred hand side but will definitely need to block the confusing visual image. You should also try shooting from the opposite shoulder to see if these shooters can perform better. If they are strongly cross-dominant it is probably best to shoot from the shoulder of the preferred eye. These cases are easy to spot because shooters will try to see through the sights with the opposite eye and forcing their head into an unnatural position. Often made of an opaque material like target paper or a translucent material like plastic milk carton, an occluder is an object that blocks some of the field of view reaching the non-shooting eye.
Field and Stream: "Some people, like my son John, are center-dominant, which is like being ambidextrous, but instead of two equally strong hands he has two equally strong eyes. For him the answer is blocking out one eye, as seen in the picture. Everyone else should shoot with both eyes open."
Guns.com: "Unfortunately, the best way to handle cross-dominance in long gun shooting is probably to shoot with your non-dominant hand, mounting the firearm on the same shoulder as your dominant eye, although many shooters advocate shooting with a patch over their dominant eye or shooting glasses, one author suggests. What plainly doesn’t work is leaning your head way over the stock to line up your dominant eye with the sights. If you don’t believe me, go grab a long gun, mount it to your dominant shoulder, and try to sight in using your cross-dominant eye. It’s really not an option. "
Some internet dude: "I too am left-eyed right-handed. I've run into a dozen or so other cross-dominant shooters over the years, and no two of us really sorted out the same doctrine with rifles & pistols. The trick, as you've discovered already, is to recognize when you're not improving, and mix things up to see if improvement results."
Probably the best write-up I found was by Kirsten Joy Weiss, in response to an internet Q&A posting:
To sum it up, as I already said, there are different viable approaches to solving the problem. There is a lot of gray area, and everyone has their own personal preference. There is no hard and fast rule to this, this is Ford vs. Chevy or AR vs. AK or Glock vs 1911. Well, you know what? I like em all! I'm not saying that the option you prefer is wrong, just that it's not the ONLY option as you contend.
I noticed that too! Looks like you are practicing on a Coast Guard Cutter! That, or you bought Michael J. Fox's costume from Back to the Future on auction.
That really is a big "loud" jacket.
Read my post again, I accidentally posted it before I was finished. I'm not saying you can't learn it the other way, but the concensus is it is generally more difficult and time consuming. There are lots of ways to do almost any task, but they will vary in their efficiency.
What consensus? I just read through 10 different links that said 10 different things. But you must always be right, of course. I'll take the word from an Olympic rifle shooter over yours any day of the week. As I recall, you came into this with info in regards to pistols, anyway. You talk about this like you read all your info in a book or on the internet. Have you ever actually instructed a novice rifle shooter how to compensate for an eye dominance issue, or is this purely academic for you??? I have, more than a few times... and I tell you that the tape square on a lens works for a lot of people BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN IT WITH MY OWN TWO EYES RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME! Yes, I have seen other shooters find switching hands to be the better option. I didn't say you were wrong, just that there's more than one way. First, you tried to say the tape square was outright incorrect, now you crawfished to the point that it is less efficient. It is really quite simple; go to the range and try different things, do what works for you. No need for the peeing match, dude. Get over yourself.
The consensus that you can do whatever you want, but that generally it is easier to learn something that you've never done before with your non dominant hand than it is to retrain the way you've used your eyes for your entire life. I'm not saying you can't do it with a blinder or by closing one eye, but generally it is easier to simply shoot a rifle with the non dominant hand, especially if you haven't shot one before.
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I can't speak for what you've read, but I generally tend to stick with people who I know have some knowledge of the topic at hand. Simply put, I don't put stock on what some guy says on a forum that I've never visited, because I have no idea what that guy knows. That said, all of the instructors I've heard speaking on the issue have said that it is much easier to shoot with the non dominant hand than the non dominant eye. In addition, all of the links you posted said the same thing. You can do whatever you like, but that doesn't mean both options are equal.
We can do without the jabs. Lets keep this an adult conversation please.
So would I, provided we were talking about Olympic shooting. The issue here is, we aren't. Blinders are going to be something that they are going to use regardless of eye dominance. They block out whatever eye they are not using, to cut down on extra information coming in and to help focus them. Since they are using blinders anyways and all they care about is the little paper circle, blocking the dominant eye isn't an issue to them. In almost all other examples of shooting, especially anything remotely practical, losing half of your vision is a massive handicap. The advice they are giving applies directly to the activity they are giving it for.
Because pistols were what he was shooting in the original video. When the discussion expanded to rifles, I expanded the scope of my posting to include rifles.
Saying someone should do something doesn't mean that they must. I would tell anyone that they should index their support hand finger at the bottom of a trigger guard for pistol and that is generally accepted and sound advice. Doesn't mean that they must, doesn't mean you can't shoot very well with the index on the front of the trigger guard, Éric Grauffel shoots that way and does so better than anyone on here, but even he doesn't teach that way. Saying that it is less efficient isn't crawfishing. If he is learning, he should be taught in a way that allows him to expand his skills as quickly as possible. Shooting with 1 eye open or a vision obstruction is not the most efficient way to do so, in my experience, in the experience of any of the credible opinions from the links you posted, and in the experience conveyed to me from people who credible opinions. I have shown a couple of people how to shoot a rifle, they were all adults shooting AR-15s, additionally, everyone who has shown me how to shoot a rifle has done so with an AR-15 and the aim has been the most effective practical shooting. Maybe the difference in experience stems from you teaching children how to shoot whatever they were shooting, where the goal is hitting the little paper, not to develop practical shooting skills(would also explain why your advice remotely falls in line with olympic style shooting). I'm not engaged in a pissing match, if I was I would be responding to the little jabs of "but you must always be right". I'm trying to have an adult discussion, I hope that you put more focus into the adult portion.
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SicilianSecrets
Well-Known Member
Congrats man. Just make sure to always wear your eye/ear protection and remember safety when handling. I personaly like the glock 17/35, but carry a 19.
Jack, The guy is a beginner with a cross-eye dominance issue, and it just so happens that I have a small amount of experience (just enough to get me in trouble, apparently) successfully working with that exact type of person. I brought up a viable option for the shooter, corroborated by other sources (the quote from Kirsten Joy Weiss says we are both right). It may work, it may not... up to him to try out at the range. Maybe he doesn't wanna switch to lefty with a rifle, maybe he does. The tape is temporary until you train up your eye. Gimme a break, will ya?
samdajellybeenie
Member
To all that say that I should shoot long guns right handed because of my right-eye-dominance (despite being naturally left handed), I was taught from the beginning to shoot long guns right handed, so it's all good. Just for some reason, I wasn't taught to shoot a pistol right handed as well. I'm sure I could've learned. I guess I should've replied earlier because there seems to be a bit of a flame war going on. Sorry about that... haha.
I stayed out of that discussion, but do want to know why you choose to shoot dressed as a fluorescent marshmallow man?
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