Um...I have no words

[bigtattoo79]

You're caught up with my being a mod. I'm not posting as a mod. I'm not threatening to delete your posts or ban you if you don't explain your posts. What you see as confrontational is usually a user's attempt to bring the topic back when they try to deflect away from a topic.

Yes, I would bet you will not find the words *go in and kill the killer* in that order in any SOP. If that bit of information is what's "different than most people think," I believe you have misread a lot of posts. Having those exact words in that exact order is what would actually surprise many people. I don't recall anyone stating that was a direct quote from any department's SOP. What people have said, including people with knowledge of some department's SOPs, is that it could be a short summary of their SOP, it could explain what the officer could have done to comply with the SOP. I know the SOP for a couple of departments and that phrase is pretty consistent with what an officer should do to comply with their SOP in an active shooter situation, even though that exact phrase does not appear in the SOP.

My point is there’s more to SOPs than just one aspect it’s not as short and sweet as most people assume it is. (Also when I say most people it’s in reference to news outlets, blog post, Facebook post, and general information people report NOT just this thread)

When the Sheriff said the officer should have went in alone was he saying that from Personal feelings or from a policy standpoint?? If from policy taking the time to explain that would have given the public a better understanding of the dept policy.

 

[thperez1972]

My point is there’s more to SOPs than just one aspect it’s not as short and sweet as most people assume it is. (Also when I say most people it’s in reference to news outlets, blog post, Facebook post, and general information people report NOT just this thread)

Fair enough. The SOP may also contain subjective language such as doing things when it is tactically sound to do so. I can't imagine an SOP that will require a lone officer to run into a situation that will result in certain death. A dead officer in much less effective than a live one.

When the Sheriff said the officer should have went in alone was he saying that from Personal feelings or from a policy standpoint??

I would say both unless the information being presented was not accurate. The impression I got was the officer, and a couple of responding deputies, never made an attempt to enter the school. In my opinion, at minimum, they should have been at the door waiting for an opportunity to enter instead of waiting behind their patrol cars with their guns drawn. Even the union president, a position known for not rubber stamping the decisions of the administration in almost every department, echos the same sentiment.

The sheriff’s deputy who failed to engage the shooter at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School *believed he did a good job* because he called in the location of the massacre and gave a description of the shooter, a top union official said Thursday.

School resource officer Scot Peterson, who resigned in disgrace from the Broward County Sheriff’s Office, was *distraught* about the shooting that killed 17 people — but believed he did his duty, according to the president of the Broward Sheriff’s Office Deputies Association.

*He believed he did a good job calling in the location, setting up the perimeter and calling in the description (of Cruz),* said the union official, Jim Bell.

During a press conference, Peterson was lambasted by his sheriff, Scott Israel, for not engaging shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz last week as he slaughtered students and staff at Douglas High School in Parkland.

The union head said he didn’t want to second-guess Peterson — but strongly suggested that failing to take on Cruz was a mistake.

*We have to act, even if that means risking our lives to save many, many more lives. I would demand that from our union members,* said Bell, still a working deputy.

*You’re listening to an execution every time you hear the rifle shot.*

...

https://nypost.com/2018/02/22/deputy-who-didnt-stop-florida-shooting-thinks-he-did-a-good-job/

 

[bigtattoo79]

Fair enough. The SOP may also contain subjective language such as doing things when it is tactically sound to do so. I can't imagine an SOP that will require a lone officer to run into a situation that will result in certain death. A dead officer in much less effective than a live one.



I would say both unless the information being presented was not accurate. The impression I got was the officer, and a couple of responding deputies, never made an attempt to enter the school. In my opinion, at minimum, they should have been at the door waiting for an opportunity to enter instead of waiting behind their patrol cars with their guns drawn. Even the union president, a position known for not rubber stamping the decisions of the administration in almost every department, echos the same sentiment.



https://nypost.com/2018/02/22/deputy-who-didnt-stop-florida-shooting-thinks-he-did-a-good-job/

A retired LEO I know says they were always advised against entering a active shooter situation alone. But were also advised to use the best possible judgment at the time (he said he would enter alone).
He also thinks that has changed over recent years but isn’t sure.

I really hope the reports of the 3 LEOs not entering turns out to be untrue (time will tell).


My point again is: SOPs have a good bit of info and the way the Sheriff said what he said it sounds like there’s not much thought put into the POCs. I also wish the Sheriff would have laid out what training was provided to the SRO to give the public a better understanding how the department prepares for this type of event.

However all the training in the world doesn’t give a person courage some have it some don’t.

 

[leadslinger972]

A retired LEO I know says they were always advised against entering a active shooter situation alone. But were also advised to use the best possible judgment at the time (he said he would enter alone).
He also thinks that has changed over recent years but isn’t sure.

SOP's change. The SOP when he was active is most likely not the SOP now. As an example, what my FIL did on Patrol/SWAT is far different from what they do now.

 

[bigtattoo79]

SOP's change. The SOP when he was active is most likely not the SOP now. As an example, what my FIL did on Patrol/SWAT is far different from what they do now.

Trust me I know lol. I only bring up that example because he’s retired and doesn’t care that I repeat it.

 

[sliguns]

 

[bigtattoo79]

http://www.wwltv.com/mobile/article...a-coward-during-school-shooting/507-523447661

 

[thperez1972]

Peterson said he did not storm the halls looking for the shooter because he initially “heard gunshots but believed those gunshots were originating from outside of the buildings on the school campus,” according to the statement. “BSO trains its officers that in the event of outdoor gunfire one is to seek cover and assess the situation in order to communicate what one observes with other law enforcement.”

He “took up a tactical position” between two other buildings next to Building 12, where Cruz spent six minutes unleashing gunfire with an AR-15 assault-style rifle.

BSO’s policy states that an officer “may” — not “must” — enter a building when an active shooter is attacking, meaning Peterson might not have violated any technical rules. Still, police tactical experts say, most active-shooter training calls for cops to identify the location of a gunman, whether inside or outside.

“If the gunfire is directed at you, it would make sense to try and seek a position of cover,” said Pete Blair, Executive Director of the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training (ALERRT) Center at Texas State University. “If it wasn’t, we encourage officers to try and find the source of the gunfire.”

Jeff Bell, the president of BSO’s police union, said Monday that he didn’t think Peterson was a coward but does think the campus cop did not do enough that day.

“I’m sorry, after 100 to 120 rounds being fired, if he still can’t figure out where the gunfire is coming from, then there are issues,” said Bell, the head of the Broward Sheriff’s Office Deputies Association, which is not representing Peterson.

Peterson said that he was the first BSO deputy to dispatch on the radio that shots were being fired. Neither Peterson nor his lawyer said whether the officer saw any students rushing from the building, or any alarming activity through the windows of Building 12 that would suggest an active shooter inside.

The above are only select quotes from the article that seemed to have the most relevant information. Anyone can read the entire article at:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article202164039.html

 

[kingfhb]

I can't believe this Sheriff is actually saying it's not his fault and he won't resign.

Now they're trying to spin it saying that the officer thought the shots were coming from outside, not inside.

What happened to the other officers that arrived on the scene that said they saw FOUR (4) deputies behind the car?

The head honcho is ALWAYS responsible for the men/women under his command. This failure is a DIRECT reflection on his office... and a HIGH VISIBILITY one at that. There's no sweeping it under the rug. No wonder why he has been campaigning to blame the NRA and the Guns... it takes the focus off his incompetent crew.

 

[bigtattoo79]

I can't believe this Sheriff is actually saying it's not his fault and he won't resign.

Now they're trying to spin it saying that the officer thought the shots were coming from outside, not inside.

What happened to the other officers that arrived on the scene that said they saw FOUR (4) deputies behind the car?

The head honcho is ALWAYS responsible for the men/women under his command. This failure is a DIRECT reflection on his office... and a HIGH VISIBILITY one at that. There's no sweeping it under the rug. No wonder why he has been campaigning to blame the NRA and the Guns... it takes the focus off his incompetent crew.

Wouldn’t there be a clear difference in sound inside VS outside?


The 3-4 officers outside story is still under investigation.

 

[bigtattoo79]

So there were more calls than 1st reported.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...ecords-show-more/ar-BBJDGI3?OCID=ansmsnnews11

 

[kingfhb]

Internal email released... DEFEND THE SHERIFF!

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/02/...-israel-internal-email-release-laura-ingraham

 

[bigtattoo79]

Internal email released... DEFEND THE SHERIFF!

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/02/...-israel-internal-email-release-laura-ingraham

Like I’ve been saying the problems in that department starts with the failed leadership. I also think there’s gonna be more to come...

 

[oleheat]

Internal email released... DEFEND THE SHERIFF!

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/02/...-israel-internal-email-release-laura-ingraham

Why defend him? 'Lions don't care about the opinions of sheep', anyway, right?

 

[Hermit]

I just heard on the radio that the county has had a standing rule for years now not to arrest students because it brings their stats down. Good stats qualify them for more state and federal money so they created a culture of not investigating crime at the schools, even violent crime.

I'll try to qualify this with actual sources .

"The Promise Program." Brainchild of Obama and Holder.
Designed to break the "school to prison" pipeline.
Ignore actual crimes so the little darlings don't get a record.

 

[whitsend]

Commentary from Mike The Cop



He indicates that SOP would have been for the SRO to go in alone.