You are kidding - these guns can't shot - or can they?

[Gus McCrae]

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/no_taurus_work.html

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/9327c0de843e9141d5f799a1f763031c-887.html

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/04/daniel-zimmerman/taurus-no-more-bull/

Dave

Interdasting.

 

[PPBart]

...Now put 1k rounds through it.
Per week.
For an entire match season, plus 2 months...

1K rounds per week? Wonder how many owners ever do that in one week, much less "an entire match season" -- which BTW leads to my next question: What is a match season? Not being smartass, just don't have any idea.

 

[300 Win Mag]

This reminds of the thread of a few days ago with the guy and the range glock.

If your happy with the Taurus that's all that really matters.

I am Happy With It indeed !!!

 

[Markmmg]

I have a Taurus 24/7 Pro DS and it has been flawless. Out of around 400 rounds shot through it, it has never malfunctioned. I would not hesitate to buy another Taurus.

 

[Sin-ster]

Touchie aren't we

Eh, it's nothing personal. I totally respect your knowledge and experience in your most dedicated areas, and feel that I've learned a lot about an alien subject (to me) from your writings/postings.

But we get a lot of these "this gun doesn't suck" threads, and while not wholly bad... Well, I think it's pretty hilarious that they almost always contain a shot taken at the "name brand guys" for their "blind dedication" and elitist attitudes, while subsequently taking that *exact same stance* in their touting of the not-so-popular pistol.

The only difference is a vast wealth of data and experiences that (at least partially) affirm the former position, and (rather widely) negate the latter.

Glocks and HKs didn't steal or fabricate their credentials; they earned them through a history of reliability, under proven and extensively adverse conditions, in the hands of folks who REALLY need their secondary (or primary for most LEOs) weapon systems to work as close to "every time" as possible. As a result, they've earned their following and reputations as well. Hell, they've PAID for them-- in R&D, testing, etc. If you honestly believe that those companies are ripping off the consumer, there's blatantly nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Suffice it to say-- Taurus, as an example, copies those popular and successful designs, negating the R&D costs almost entirely; they have less stringent requirements in their manufacturing process, curbing costs further; they don't perform the same levels of testing or with the same frequency, as they're really not producing guns for the larger military and LEO markets. That's a metric crap ton of money saved per firearm; if they tried to charge the same as their bigger named "competitors", that truly would be a sham.

Touchy-- not commonly. This may just have been the straw that broke the camel's back, at least temporarily. On any gun board, you'll find a billion folks with a billion different guns that all claim that "theirs runs flawlessly", with no qualifications or specifics as to the conditions of that performance. In a true quest for information, those types of posts are not only useless-- they can be downright dangerous at the same time.

Here's something that's telling. When someone posts about the uber-ness of a firearm that most folks consider to be sub-par in terms of quality, it generates a lot of discussion and dissent. On the flip side, when someone posts about an issue with a gun that's known for its superb reliability, the same thing takes place. (Go post a "Glock failure" thread and see what happens...)

The difference is, quite obviously, that one is coming from a track record of problematic function, and the other from one of boring reliability. Like all stereotypes... they have a fairly (if not completely) firm foundation in the truth, and speak to the personal experiences of those who adopt and maintain them.

 

[Sin-ster]

1K rounds per week? Wonder how many owners ever do that in one week, much less "an entire match season" -- which BTW leads to my next question: What is a match season? Not being smartass, just don't have any idea.

I know of one, for certain, that does so without fail. Crazy bastard that he is... even makes up for weeks that he had to miss by adding more rounds to the following sessions. (Whack job, for sure. I think his name is "Graybo" or something...)

I've also been told by several others, who I have no reason to doubt, that they do the same thing-- as do members of their units, teams, etc. Some of them put rifles through that type of torture, but instead of doing it across an entire year, they seem to wanna rush a ton of shooting into the few months when they're not kicking through some third-world armpit. Psychos!

/mild sarcasm

The USPSA match season stretches from roughly the middle of February through the middle of November, these days. I'm not up-to-snuff on all of the other games out there, but I'd assume that (being a product of the USA), ours is probably the longest-- and most common, in this country.

Those who are serious about it may not take any time off at all, though most probably kick off for 6 weeks before beginning Pre-Season preparations. Many consider March to be the beginning, and Nationals (or the locally hosted LAGC) to be the end of the season, in the middle of October. It's not the NFL, NBA, NHL or MLB-- but you get the general idea.

100k per year for the top pro's and the guys aspiring to be them (which is several hundred people) is not at all uncommon. 50k per year, even more so-- 40k, 30k, etc with more and more frequency. One can easily expect to replace an entire firearm at the end of such a season in certain cases, although I'm sure in a lot of those instances, it's not at all necessary-- just an excuse to spend more loot on something "new and cool!"

Is that expected, or even practical, for the average Joe? Hells no! I use it as a point of reference because going after that goal will separate "quality" from "junk" in a few short months-- if not weeks. I also mention it because Glocks, HKs and M&Ps have proven themselves in such abusive conditions over and over and over again (even if it's across 2-5 years). I'm unaware of a single Taurus that can claim the same, though to be fair-- it may be because no one ever thought to try.

On a closing note-- if you're not shooting AT LEAST 1k rounds per "season", you're doing yourself a vast disservice in terms of attaining and maintaing proficiency with your firearm. Of course considerations have to be made for those without the funds, time, or opportunity-- but as frankly as I can put it, those folks need to STFU when it comes to talking about reliability, performance, etc and listen to the folks who have something of substance to add to the conversation. It's one thing to throw in a comment that begins "in my limited experience", or "I've actually seen"; it's another to spout off or argue theoreticals with someone who has BTDT, or take a single case of a single firearm and herald it as absolute refutation of "all the Internet flaming." (Oof, that was offensive-- but valid nonetheless...)

I DON'T direct that comment at anyone in this thread. 300 has a lot of experience and knowledge from what I've seen and can remember, and I value his less-extensive experience with anything firearm related over a lot of folks that have more hands-on time with the platforms or items in question. I just contend with a bit of the hyperbole in his original post. The fact that it was so well worded and framed is probably why I seem so "touchy" about it.

 

[lsu fan]

My friend Biran gave me a call Wednesday evening and said a very close friend of his was wanting to sell a 9mm pistol. This guy bought one for him and one for his wife but she wanted even a smaller one in 380 to just put in her hand bag, so the guy decided to keep his but sell hers. He told Brian that he would sell it to him for 200.00.

Well, Brian didn't want a 9mm right now so he ask me if I wanted to buy the thing. I wasn't real sure, because I had three revolvers and one pistol made by this company through the years and they were very good shooters but have heard so much negative stuff about this brand especially on some forums and I was about to shy away from the deal. So Thursday morning I called Brian and told him to pick it up and I would meet him later pick up the pistol.

What was really cool was he did pick it up but gave it to me plus two boxes of 9mm Winchester 115gr FMJ ammo. So today, I went to the range to see if I could hit anything within reason and if so might use if for a carry.


Well hear are the results:


Target is fifteen yards away standing: The pistol holds 13 +1

First target fourteen rounds (had to get use to the trigger) it shot a little left and after group adjusted sights.

Second target fourteen rounds after adjusting sights an having a better feel for the trigger.

Think I will keep this one shooting factory win ammo this good.



Taurus PT 609 pro

Sounds like you got a pretty sweet deal!! Even if it's not realiable enough to last ~11 months of 1K rounds a week.

 

[300 Win Mag]

Yeah, it is a pretty sweet deal, man can you imagine what I can hit with this thing for the next 11 months, not bad for 200.00 of course I will have to shoot a lot to stay proficient, sure hope I make the 11 months. If not, I will just pull out one of my snobby guns for fun. Now when it comes down to it, I do like my Glock, and my 1911's better, thought I would save this till now, since Sin-ster does have some valid points.

 

[linc247]

Well I will never own or carry a Taurus again. I went out and purchased a Ruger lcr for my wife to carry and a pt 709 slim for myself. After shooting a 100 rounds thru the Taurus I had over a 25% failure rate. Not ejecting spent round and jamming one into it. After talking to various people everyone one said shoot it more and it will work out. After another 100 to 200 more rounds the failure rate barely dropped. I own a few other 9mm's and have only had maybe a couple a jams with cheap ammo (lesson learned long ago) I got rid of that Taurus P.O.S.! How or why would I carry something that is even remotely unreliable? This is the really real world and there ain't no coming back and I plan on sticking around!
Just my opinion.

 

[300 Win Mag]

Hope your Ruger does not fail, you know they have from time to time so that puts a little pressure on your own logic. Nothing in this world is perfect and even if something else is better does not mean it won't fail.

 

[Emperor]

Very funny!

 

[Emperor]

300 Win Mag,

Enjoy your pistol! I will never shoot 1000 rounds through a pistol a week, ever; either! Unless of course, in the Zombie Apocolypse, SHTF, the Rothschilds take over, the Great Battle of the Darkies ve Whities, etc., etc.

Sin-ster is coming from a wayyyy different perspective. So take it with a grain of salt; like any advice! I respect his views. He is an accomplished shooter and an eloquent writer. And from me, as a person that has just about every freakin brand of handgun known to man, just shoot them till they don't work and throw them away if you choose.

But if you don't have a Sig for you primary; you sir, are a heathen!

How'd ya'll like that! Huh? Huh? Can you feel it?

 

[300 Win Mag]

300 Win Mag,

Enjoy your pistol! I will never shoot 1000 rounds through a pistol a week, ever; either! Unless of course, in the Zombie Apocolypse, SHTF, the Rothschilds take over, the Great Battle of the Darkies ve Whities, etc., etc.

Sin-ster is coming from a wayyyy different perspective. So take it with a grain of salt; like any advice! I respect his views. He is an accomplished shooter and an eloquent writer. And from me, as a person that has just about every freakin brand of handgun known to man, just shoot them till they don't work and throw them away if you choose.

But if you don't have a Sig for you primary; you sir, are a heathen!

How'd ya'll like that! Huh? Huh? Can you feel it?

I am a heathen, always wanted one though. I will pass on the feel it thing

 

[300 Win Mag]

This has been a fun thread. My comment about the snobby guns was a bit over the top. Also, my "aren't we touchie" comment to Sin-ster was also over the top. Sin-ster please do not take it personal. You all are right on Taurus' record of performance. I got a little carried away with the one I bought since it did not cost much and shot so great at 15yds. I do realize what I have and aware of their history. I was only being humorous at first and I guess it was not so funny to some. I enjoy reading things on this fforum and from time to time starting a thread or posting. Hope there are no bad feelings, I sure don't harbor any.

 

[Gus McCrae]

Funny you should mention that. One of those ended up on a traffic stop in the violators car, and I ended up having to bring the guy to my office for questioning of something. I had planned on putting the pistol back in the guys car before heading out with him, but he asked me if I could take it with us to the office, and teach him how to break it down to clean, as he could never figure out how. So after we did what needed to be done at the office, we had like a 20 minute "safety and maintenance" class in our squad room. It was really really frickin nasty inside. He said all he had done for maintenance before(around 3 years of ownership) was squirt some wd-40 in the "holes". It looked like toothpaste inside.

That was very nice of you to do.

 

[linc247]

I have heard that about some rugers but not so much on revolvers. I understand occasionally issues (ammo, cleanliness, etc.), but failure that many times in so few rounds? I know many people with lcr's and all have had no issues. I know just as many with various Taurus's and almost everyone has had issues.
As for Win whos Taurus is shooting good. ..Godspeed! I just can't put feel comfortable carrying one. If my Rugers fail me that many times and i'll get rid of them too. Until then I'm smiling!

And maybe remotely was the wrong choice of words , But how about repeatedly fails. Just my 2 cents not hating if yours works.

 

[jdindadell]

Hey, those tauri (plural of taurus?) usually go for about 300+ bucks, so sell it on the sportsman, make 100 bucks and put the money towards a couple of jennings/brycos, then sell them for 50 bucks profit each and buy a few lorcins/ravens and do the same. Soon you will have made all of your money back and have enough to puchase a used glock/m&p or maybe the barrel off a worn out hk. Keep in mind even a shot-out hk barrel (which is not possible inside of the parameters of quantum theory as we currently experience it in our limited 3 dimensional world, but could exist if you could suspend time on the "event horizon" of a black hole and simultaneously fire a quantity of lead that would equal the mass of the universe squared through said hk barrel) is still 4x more deadly than any other hand or shoulder fired weapon this side of the also theoretical light sabre.

That may be too technical so let me approach the info with a simple equation:

HK+(1)angstron unit = God

Both are > everything else combined.

Simple.

 

[300 Win Mag]

Doesn't sound simple

 

[jdindadell]

Doesn't sound simple

Just read it a few more times, it will make sense. I promise.

 

[300 Win Mag]

that is what I am afraid of and I don't want to get rid of this thing, I want to see how long it last, I just ordered a case of 9mm ammo and going to run it through the gun just to see if I can create any problems. This will be fun since I did not pay much for it and it will also give me enough data to make a general assessment. Note I said general assessment. Whatever, it will be fun no matter what happens. I is 1,000 rounds of Seller & Bellot 9mm which is hotter than the Winchester ammo I ran through it, just to put it to a good test.