Mandeville "Hero" to be Prosecuted?

[Whitebread]

If he let him go, it the events that happened... wouldn't have happened.

Something else would have happened. I don't play the "What If" game. What happened, happened. If it didn't happen, then it wouldn't' have happened. Get it?

But you are playing the what if game. You are saying if he didnt go get the plate number the guy wouldn't have followed him back in. So simple even you could get it. Right

 

[DAVE_M]

Dave think through this mental execise with me.

"Lawd help me. May you allow me to understand the grammatical errors I'm about to face."

Ok, I'll play.

You are in a resturaunt enjoying your lunch, and ypu begin to notice the guy in the neighboring both is belligerently drunk. Then he begins to talk ugly and use foul language towards the waitress loud enough for the whole resturaunt to hear. I think its safe to say based on many of your post you wont get envolved at this point.

Correct. It's not my duty.

Now add in the fact that he is behaving this way infront of your small children. What now?

Not my duty.

Then he starts throwing things maybe you begin to wonder if the next time he throws something if it could strike you or your child. Anything now??

I don't have kids.

But wait maybe the waitress is your wife, daughter, sister, friend. Would that get you envolved?

My wife was smart enough to get out of the food industry at a young age, but again, it's not my duty. My wife is also smart enough, if she were in the situation, to avoid it.

I'm truely interested to see at what point the behavior is unexceptable enough to force your hand.

I know where mine is. When he begins to throw things that could harm anonther who has not shown equally agressive behavior is when I am forced to envolve myself. Now I'm hands off at this point but I'm a using manners and asking him to calm down and to stop behaving in such a reckless manner. And if he begins to exibit physically agressive behavior toward me I would have to then begin escalating my actions.

Now if my kids are around I have to start politely asking when starts getting loud and belligerent.

Cool story bro.

I missed the part about someones life being endangered. The aggressor was also unarmed. I see very little justification for deadly force.
The perp was not committing a felony, so the intervention by someone OCing was not necessary. In the end, a lawfully armed citizen injected himself into a minor altercation that resulted in deadly force.
He could have avoided this altogether by simply being a witness and waiting to see IF the altercation with the clerk would turn deadly. Instead, he needlessly provoked a new confrontation that led to deadly force. If you are going to carry a gun as a citizen, then you have a duty to avoid petty confrontations with idiots.

You sir... You get it. Bravo!

 

[geoney]

Care to make a wager?

Sure. I do not believe it will go to trial.

Wage?

 

[bigtattoo79]

Dave think through this mental execise with me.

You are in a resturaunt enjoying your lunch, and ypu begin to notice the guy in the neighboring both is belligerently drunk. Then he begins to talk ugly and use foul language towards the waitress loud enough for the whole resturaunt to hear. I think its safe to say based on many of your post you wont get envolved at this point.

Now add in the fact that he is behaving this way infront of your small children. What now?

Then he starts throwing things maybe you begin to wonder if the next time he throws something if it could strike you or your child. Anything now??

But wait maybe the waitress is your wife, daughter, sister, friend. Would that get you envolved?

I'm truely interested to see at what point the behavior is unexceptable enough to force your hand.

I know where mine is. When he begins to throw things that could harm anonther who has not shown equally agressive behavior is when I am forced to envolve myself. Now I'm hands off at this point but I'm a using manners and asking him to calm down and to stop behaving in such a reckless manner. And if he begins to exibit physically agressive behavior toward me I would have to then begin escalating my actions.

Now if my kids are around I have to start politely asking when starts getting loud and belligerent.

Why not just walk out at the very start of it? Why stick around and wait for the problem to grow? Stop saying what if it was your wife. My wife will take care of her self. If you need people to watch your wife wake her up on her Sunday and get her some training. Children and Elderly I may step in if I feel they are in harm. I will not step in because of some dude screaming and throwing a bag of chips.

 

[DAVE_M]

Sure. I do not believe it will go to trial.

Wage?

When did I say it WILL go to trial?

You said I will change my mind. I'd like to wager that I won't. It's a foolish bet if you take it.

 

[bjeepin2]

Let me break it down for you, in terms you can understand.

You became a Marine in 1987. That's what happened.
If you didn't, then how could it happen?

He went and got the plate number. The guy followed him inside.
If he didn't go get the plate number. The guy wouldn't have followed him inside.

If you don't get that. I can't help you.

yes we know what happened but we can not know any thing that may have happened IF something else happened unless you know the future. yes I joined in 87 but if not I may have joined in 88 we don't know because of the if. I love the word IF because we will never know what if.

now you cant tell me what would have happened if he didn't get the LP no more than I can because that didn't happen. now "IF" you don't understand that we will never know.

 

[Whitebread]

"Lawd help me. May you allow me to understand the grammatical errors I'm about to face."

Ok, I'll play.



Correct. It's not my duty.



Not my duty.



I don't have kids.



My wife was smart enough to get out of the food industry at a young age, but again, it's not my duty. My wife is also smart enough, if she were in the situation, to avoid it.



Cool story bro.



You sir... You get it. Bravo!

I dont see how you even have courage to get out of bed after those responses. Much less spend you day takin chit on here. I feel sorry for your wife. Any man that wont protect his wife even when she was in the wrong... Sad sad sad.

 

[Whitebread]

yes we know what happened but we can not know any thing that may have happened IF something else happened unless you know the future. yes I joined in 87 but if not I may have joined in 88 we don't know because of the if. I love the word IF because we will never know what if.

now you cant tell me what would have happened if he didn't get the LP no more than I can because that didn't happen. now "IF" you don't understand that we will never know.

You just have to understand some people are just infinately smarter than the rest of thd world and Dave is one of those.

 

[jmcrawf1]

Self-righteous - "having or showing a strong belief that your own actions, opinions, etc., are right and other people's are wrong"

the irony is you've shown your own self-righteousness in your comment above

Clearly, based on the definition of the word, we are all self-righteous so why act like this guy should be any different?

I don't see the problem of getting a license plate number, however, we should all take note that perhaps more ninja-skills should be used when obtaining the plate# so as not to trigger the "real derp". And I say 'real derp' b/c the real derp is the guy who got himself killed b/c he didn't know how to act.

And to those saying things like "i wouldn't donate to this guy b/c he should have minded his own business"...I'd say consider that this man could have a wife and kids who will no doubt feel the repercussions of your self-righteousness. Additionally, why be so callous towards this man? We all have varying degrees of when we would feel comfortable getting involved in the self-defense of others, so I'd cut this guy some slack since it doesn't appear he went looking for a fight.

As for me, I'll donate once it's shown completely necessary, meaning, if the grand jury moves forward with prosecution, I'll donate and post it here as proof.

Let me break it down dummy style.

Self righteous: having or showing a strong belief that your own actions, opinions, etc., are right and other people's are wrong.

OR, being so outraged that someone threw chips and yelled obscenities that you will now inject yourself into a situation that did not involve you in the first place. For what? Sticking up for the "little guy"? Something need to be done? A self imposed MORAL OBLIGATION?

All that blah blah blah you wrote about nothing wrong with getting a license plate doesn't matter when you are getting the crap sued out of you and food ripped from your kids mouths because daddy wanted to be a hero.

I'm not self righteous. I am realistic. I KNOW certain things to be true. And guess what, I know a lot more of the facts of this case than you do. It is what it is. If you would have done what he did then cool. We will agree to disagree. But I bet if you ask the guy if he would do it again, I'm sure he would say that he wouldn't.

 

[DAVE_M]

I dont see how you even have courage to get out of bed after those responses. Much less spend you day takin chit on here. I feel sorry for your wife. Any man that wont protect his wife even when she was in the wrong... Sad sad sad.

1. Have the courage to get out of bed? WTF? Do you think I'm a LEO? It's not my job to deal with the derps.
3. Don't feel sorry for anyone. No one asked for your pity.
5. You don't know me or my wife, so keep your trap shut before you accidentally make this personal and end up getting the ban hammer.
7. Why would I have to protect my wife from a situation she isn't involved in?

It's difficult to believe that a forensic accountant has such poor grammar and literary skills.

 

[bjeepin2]

Let me break it down dummy style.
But I bet if you ask the guy if he would do it again, I'm sure he would say that he wouldn't.

we have all done things we look back on and wish we would not have. I still say he did nothing wrong and if he gets a bad deal out of this then that is what is f up in the world today. IF I had invested in Google I WOULD NOT be typing right now.

 

[BigP623]

Let me break it down for you, in terms you can understand.

You became a Marine in 1987. That's what happened.
If you didn't, then how could it happen?

He went and got the plate number. The guy followed him inside.
If he didn't go get the plate number. The guy wouldn't have followed him inside.

If you don't get that. I can't help you.

Direct Quote from the original report.
"The suspect left the store, but came back several times, becoming more aggressive with each visit."

So you playing the what if game by saying he wouldn't have re-entered the store doesn't fall in line with things that were happening on scene. When he went to get the plate number it was obviously in anticipation that this guy would get more violent and a felony may occur in my view. I don't think he did anything wrong and will stick by that.

 

[DAVE_M]

Direct Quote from the original report.
"The suspect left the store, but came back several times, becoming more aggressive with each visit."

So you playing the what if game by saying he wouldn't have re-entered the store doesn't fall in line with things that were happening on scene. When he went to get the plate number it was obviously in anticipation that this guy would get more violent and a felony may occur in my view. I don't think he did anything wrong and will stick by that.

Reread what I posted.

If homeboy never went outside to get the plate, how can he be followed back inside?

 

[whitsend]

I missed the part about someones life being endangered. The aggressor was also unarmed. I see very little justification for deadly force.
The perp was not committing a felony, so the intervention by someone OCing was not necessary. In the end, a lawfully armed citizen injected himself into a minor altercation that resulted in deadly force.
He could have avoided this altogether by simply being a witness and waiting to see IF the altercation with the clerk would turn deadly. Instead, he needlessly provoked a new confrontation that led to deadly force. If you are going to carry a gun as a citizen, then you have a duty to avoid petty confrontations with idiots.

That would be when the perp forced the shooter back into the store and tried to take his firearm.
That was when deadly force was justified.
And that is when deadly force was used.

I don't play the what if game. I'm just going by the facts we know.
Y'all can play the "what if he didn't inject himself in the minor altercation" if you want.
Bu the fact is when the perp became aggressive toward the shooter and reached for his gun, deadly force was justified.

JMHO

 

[BigP623]

But you are saying the guy wouldn't have come back in. How do you know that?

 

[whitsend]

Reread what I posted.

If homeboy never went outside to get the plate, how can he be followed back inside?

You're playing the what if game again.

 

[BigP623]

You're playing the what if game again.

Exactly. He is against people playing the what if game, while playing his what if game but stating it as fact rather than a what if scenario.
And like I posted before, what was happening on scene showed that he was likely to come back in the store all by himself again anyways.
"The suspect left the store, but came back several times, becoming more aggressive with each visit."

 

[jmcrawf1]

That would be when the perp forced the shooter back into the store and tried to take his firearm.
That was when deadly force was justified.
And that is when deadly force was used.

I don't play the what if game. I'm just going by the facts we know.
Y'all can play the "what if he didn't inject himself in the minor altercation" if you want.
Bu the fact is when the perp became aggressive toward the shooter and reached for his gun, deadly force was justified.

JMHO

Nobody is arguing that deadly force was or was not justified. Mandeville Police already submitted their finding to the DA. He probably won't go to a grand jury.

What will happen is he will be taken to court in a civil wrongful death lawsuit and probably lose everything he worked for. And THAT, is what I'm getting at. That store clerk or store owner that this guy felt so strongly about defending probably won't even so much as donate to the gofundme. Getting it ruled justified is not the end of the story here.

 

[DAVE_M]

That would be when the perp forced the shooter back into the store and tried to take his firearm.
That was when deadly force was justified.
And that is when deadly force was used.

I don't play the what if game. I'm just going by the facts we know.
Y'all can play the "what if he didn't inject himself in the minor altercation" if you want.
Bu the fact is when the perp became aggressive toward the shooter and reached for his gun, deadly force was justified.

JMHO

Whether deadly force was justified or not isn't the question. It's if this could have been avoided had the OC guy not put himself into the situation he had no part of being in.

But you are saying the guy wouldn't have come back in. How do you know that?

You don't comprehend things very well. When did I say that he wouldn't come back in? He was agitated by the guy taking his plate number and followed him back in the store. The problem is the guy taking the plate number... That's always been the problem.

 

[Whitebread]

1. Have the courage to get out of bed? WTF? Do you think I'm a LEO? It's not my job to deal with the derps.
3. Don't feel sorry for anyone. No one asked for your pity.
5. You don't know me or my wife, so keep your trap shut before you accidentally make this personal and end up getting the ban hammer.
7. Why would I have to protect my wife from a situation she isn't involved in?

It's difficult to believe that a forensic accountant has such poor grammar and literary skills.

It amaising anyone capable of operating a computer vould have such low critical thinking and reading comprehension skills.


And if you want to talk person, I shrugged off many insulting comments from you long before I return fire. But I would expect no less from a keyboard comando such as yourself.

And for the record Derp I have never carried or claimed to have carried the title of forensic accountant. I am an account and I do run a department. And at one point I served as and external auditor when I worked in the public accounting sector. I have always struggled with grammer. I read and re-read things I send out. Occasionally I have one of my clerks proof me just in case but when I'm on the interenet chatting with folks like you I figure they have more interest in the content anyways and dont give proof reading as much value.