Do you think private gun sales should go through a FFL?

[BlackWaterFish]

It protects the seller in case things ever go sideways.

While you might be able to avoid any criminal prosecution a potential civil case is all together different. Imagine you sold one of the mass killers a firearm in a private sale. You would face financial ruin even if you won the civil suits. Even going through an FFL might not help you but it's the best you can do.

Unfortunately logic has little place in our legal system on either the criminal or civil side.

I agree with this and will add another aspect. A bill of sale for anything you sell or buy online or in-person is a good idea (stereos, computers, clothes, firearms, etc.). The item could be stolen and in rare cases it could be a grift as in the person 'changes their mind' about the sale but doesn't want to part with the money or they are selling something that doesn't really belong to them like a parent's or grandparent's item. People get desperate when they're struggling with money or hooked on drugs, gambling, etc. FFL or notary can help save you some real hassles if the sale goes sideways. While we're at it, don't leave your fingerprints all over your ammunition if you don't properly lock up your weapons.

 

[thperez1972]

I agree with this and will add another aspect. A bill of sale for anything you sell or buy online or in-person is a good idea (stereos, computers, clothes, firearms, etc.). The item could be stolen and in rare cases it could be a grift as in the person 'changes their mind' about the sale but doesn't want to part with the money or they are selling something that doesn't really belong to them like a parent's or grandparent's item. People get desperate when they're struggling with money or hooked on drugs, gambling, etc. FFL or notary can help save you some real hassles if the sale goes sideways. While we're at it, don't leave your fingerprints all over your ammunition if you don't properly lock up your weapons.

If you've never heard the term "rock rental," it refers to a car that's loaned to someone in exchange for something like a crack rock or for money for something like a crack rock. There's usually no contract drawn up. It's not uncommon for the renter to later report the car stolen. Or if the car doesn't actually belong to the renter, the owner could report it stolen. Many a rentee have taken a ride for diving a stolen vehicle they may not have known was stolen.

 

[Magdump]

For the record, having a bill of sale for a gun you sell only proves you sold the gun. BOS for a gun you bought, proof you bought it from the other party. It’s not a magic protective spell or UNO reverse card that magically negates any threat of civil action or criminal charges, should they arise. It is, however, a record of the sale and could just as easily work against a person in certain circumstances.

 

[RussnAttitude]

I personally prefer to buy my "toys" through private sale, and in particular, from members on this forum. I can find em usually cheaper than any store will ask (arguably) , any kinks that firearm may have, has likely already been worked out from previous outings, being hunting time, range, etc.. I have no problem meeting anyone at an FFL if they prefer that, or even just showing them my ID in Cabela's parking lot to show I'm a resident. It's basically different strokes for different folks. As a seller, I'll usually ask for/offer a bill of sale, that way when Joe Leo knocks on my door next summer saying "my gun" was used in a crime, I can provide that BOS and say, not my gun, wish the officer luck in finding his suspect and go about my day. (In hopes that's the end of it). Lol

 

[thperez1972]

For the record, having a bill of sale for a gun you sell only proves you sold the gun.

Yep.

BOS for a gun you bought, proof you bought it from the other party.

Exactly.

It’s not a magic protective spell or UNO reverse card that magically negates any threat of civil action or criminal charges, should they arise.

Correct. But as you pointed out, it can be proof the gun found on the crime scene was no longer yours or you did not know the stolen gun in your possession was stolen.

It is, however, a record of the sale and could just as easily work against a person in certain circumstances.

Would you be able to provide one of those circumstances?

 

[mrwiggins]

4473 no, bos yes

 

[thperez1972]

It is, however, a record of the sale and could just as easily work against a person in certain circumstances.

Would you be able to provide one of those circumstances?

No? Don't worry. I wasn't able to come up with a legitimate example either.

 

[BlackWaterFish]

If you've never heard the term "rock rental," it refers to a car that's loaned to someone in exchange for something like a crack rock or for money for something like a crack rock. There's usually no contract drawn up. It's not uncommon for the renter to later report the car stolen. Or if the car doesn't actually belong to the renter, the owner could report it stolen. Many a rentee have taken a ride for diving a stolen vehicle they may not have known was stolen.

And you're just going to see more of this kind of stuff happening as more people get more desperate. Costs of basic living ain't coming down anytime soon. Someone who thinks they have nothing left to lose can be both stupid and dangerous.

 

[Magdump]

No? Don't worry. I wasn't able to come up with a legitimate example either.

Not worried at all. I also never feel compelled to answer your questions so please don’t be troubled when I don’t respond. To the question, I would not what to elaborate. Pretty sure if you think outside the legal box you’d come up with something. Glad you answered for me though.

 

[thperez1972]

Not worried at all. I also never feel compelled to answer your questions so please don’t be troubled when I don’t respond.

While I understand your not feeling compelled to answer my questions, it would be reasonable that you would be interested in pointing out any erroneous information being provided to your fellow 2nd amendment advocates. And you usually don't shy away from jumping on an opportunity to try to point out my errors.

To the question, I would not what to elaborate. Pretty sure if you think outside the legal box you’d come up with something. Glad you answered for me though.

Ok...I thought outside the box. Other than the wife finding a bos and either asking me where the money went or finding the bos and realizing how much I really paid for a weapon, I'm coming up blank. But the offer still stands. If you are able provide a legitimate negative consequence of getting a bos, you're welcome to share it to warn other buyers or sellers.

 

[Mitch Dufour]

Can I play the game?

I buy a slicked up gat glock with a giggle switch from Joey 3 Fingers. He demands a Bill of Sell and I consent. I mean, you don't say no to Joey 3 Fingers right?

A week later, I find my self on the bad side of town looking for late night companionship. Things go bad and have to use the aforementioned gat glock with the giggle switch. In my rush to leave the seedy hotel room, I forget to grab the glock after I tug my boots back on.

Two months later, there is a knock at the door and the nice man in the shiny blue uniform has a copy of
THE bill of sale in hand. His partner has a photo of the glock and they are asking me if I know a girl that goes by the name of Cookie Love.

 

[Bigchillin83]

Can I play the game?

View attachment 140673
I buy a slicked up gat glock with a giggle switch from Joey 3 Fingers. He demands a Bill of Sell and I consent. I mean, you don't say no to Joey 3 Fingers right?

A week later, I find my self on the bad side of town looking for late night companionship. Things go bad and have to use the aforementioned gat glock with the giggle switch. In my rush to leave the seedy hotel room, I forget to grab the glock after I tug my boots back on.

Two months later, there is a knock at the door and the nice man in the shiny blue uniform has a copy of
THE bill of sale in hand. His partner has a photo of the glock and they are asking me if I know a girl that goes by the name of Cookie Love.

somebody aint living right, thats all i gotta say

 

[Fordfella]

Can I play the game?

View attachment 140673
I buy a slicked up gat glock with a giggle switch from Joey 3 Fingers. He demands a Bill of Sell and I consent. I mean, you don't say no to Joey 3 Fingers right?

A week later, I find my self on the bad side of town looking for late night companionship. Things go bad and have to use the aforementioned gat glock with the giggle switch. In my rush to leave the seedy hotel room, I forget to grab the glock after I tug my boots back on.

Two months later, there is a knock at the door and the nice man in the shiny blue uniform has a copy of
THE bill of sale in hand. His partner has a photo of the glock and they are asking me if I know a girl that goes by the name of Cookie Love.

Hey, You know Cookie.....How's she doing these days????

 

[Fordfella]

There is a guy serving time right now for selling armor piercing (illegal) rounds to the mass shooter in las vegas at a gun show, found him by his fingerprints on some unused ammo in the room after the shooter blew his brains out.

He entered a guilty plea for manufacturing without a license. He sold 720 tracers to the shooter. I'm not aware that AP/Tracers are illegal.

 

[RussnAttitude]

He entered a guilty plea for manufacturing without a license. He sold 720 tracers to the shooter. I'm not aware that AP/Tracers are illegal.

Sure hope Tracers aren't illegal... You can buy them on any website that sells ammo...

 

[340six]

He entered a guilty plea for manufacturing without a license. He sold 720 tracers to the shooter. I'm not aware that AP/Tracers are illegal.

He made them up. Took tracer bullets from pull downs.
He sold reloads. Did not have FFL to make them

 

[Jstudz220]

I agree with this and will add another aspect. A bill of sale for anything you sell or buy online or in-person is a good idea (stereos, computers, clothes, firearms, etc.). The item could be stolen and in rare cases it could be a grift as in the person 'changes their mind' about the sale but doesn't want to part with the money or they are selling something that doesn't really belong to them like a parent's or grandparent's item. People get desperate when they're struggling with money or hooked on drugs, gambling, etc. FFL or notary can help save you some real hassles if the sale goes sideways. While we're at it, don't leave your fingerprints all over your ammunition if you don't properly lock up your weapons.

I would think text messages or personal messages could and would be used to prove someone’s innocence if need be.

 

[Jstudz220]

Do i think they should be a legal requirement? Absolutely not.

 

[Magdump]

While I understand your not feeling compelled to answer my questions, it would be reasonable that you would be interested in pointing out any erroneous information being provided to your fellow 2nd amendment advocates. And you usually don't shy away from jumping on an opportunity to try to point out my errors.



Ok...I thought outside the box. Other than the wife finding a bos and either asking me where the money went or finding the bos and realizing how much I really paid for a weapon, I'm coming up blank. But the offer still stands. If you are able provide a legitimate negative consequence of getting a bos, you're welcome to share it to warn other buyers or sellers.

Oh good lord man. Do you really miss the back and forth that much? If there’s ever a reason that you would not want a record of a sale or purchase, a BOS is a record in another party’s hands. Fill in the blanks for yourself. You don’t need me to hold your hand.

 

[thperez1972]

Oh good lord man. Do you really miss the back and forth that much? If there’s ever a reason that you would not want a record of a sale or purchase, a BOS is a record in another party’s hands. Fill in the blanks for yourself. You don’t need me to hold your hand.

No, I don't miss the back and forth and I'm not trying to start it anew. But you made a claim as if the proof were obvious. All I asked for was one example. If you can't provide a situation by now, that's cool.