Well it looks like we just got screwed

[SpeedRacer]

Re-read the thread. I'm sure you won't see it.

Panicking over things that we have no idea if and when they go into effect is silly.

I'm sure you don't see it that way, but me and few others do.

JR1572

I did. Please, help me out. Show me examples of "the world is ending", "panic" or even "pissed off". We're discussing the potential of it happening. Of course some people aren't happy about what will potentially (likely) happen, and rightly so. I didn't see anything remotely close to anyone panicking.

 

[JR1572]

I have a question for a couple of you , do you two always hang out together online and talk crap about things that you may not agree with ?

We don't pre-plan it.

JR1572

 

[JR1572]

I did. Please, help me out. Show me examples of "the world is ending", "panic" or even "pissed off". We're discussing the potential of it happening. Of course some people aren't happy about what will potentially (likely) happen, and rightly so. I didn't see anything remotely close to anyone panicking.

Really? We're screwed? How many people said that when NO CHANGE has gone into effect yet?

We're "screwed", but the change that would "screw" us has yet to happen.

That's how I see it.

JR1572

 

[JNieman]

So you're raising this fit over a dubious use of verb tense?

 

[SpeedRacer]

Really? We're screwed? How many people said that when NO CHANGE has gone into effect yet?

We're "screwed", but the change that would "screw" us has yet to happen.

That's how I see it.

JR1572

I think your definition of panic is insanely different than mine. And Webster's.

 

[JR1572]

So you're raising this fit over a dubious use of verb tense?

No.

JR1572

 

[Lafsnguy]

It's not set in stone yet but far more knowledgeable people than I have said that it's pretty much going to happen. As someone said earlier the comment period is a formality. The sky isn't falling but if it goes through and your cleo won't sign off you will not be able to get nfa. Saying you don't really care because you have what you want is shortsighted. The problem with a lot of gun owners is they don't care about the government effectively banning someone else's guns because they either don't want them or have all they wanted. All fine and good until they come for yours.

 

[JR1572]

I think your definition of panic is insanely different than mine. And Webster's.

Main Entry: 2panic
Function: noun
Date: 1708
1 a : a sudden overpowering fright ; also : acute extreme anxiety b : a sudden unreasoning terror often accompanied by mass flight <widespread panic in the streets> c : a sudden widespread fright concerning financial affairs that results in a depression of values caused by extreme measures for protection of property (as securities) 2 slang : one that is very funny

I don't know Curt, fearing that something has changed when nothing has actually changed sounds like it may fit the bill.

I copied that from Merriam-Webster online.

JR1572

 

[JNieman]

JR, your opinion that it may not go anywhere is contrary to the consensus of people way more involved and educated on these matters than you or I.

What information or basis is there of your expectation of there being a reasonable chance this change is not imminent?

Beyond all that, how does that mean we shouldn't be discussing it or worrying about the repercussions, or disseminating any and all information on the topic to interested people?

 

[JR1572]

JR, your opinion that it may not go anywhere is contrary to the consensus of people way more involved and educated on these matters than you or I.

What information or basis is there of your expectation of there being a reasonable chance this change is not imminent?

Beyond all that, how does that mean we shouldn't be discussing it or worrying about the repercussions, or disseminating any and all information on the topic to interested people?

I found this posted on another forum.

While NFA trusts would still have purpose and benefits, this would essentially eliminate the main reason most people use the: to avoid the CLEO signoff requirement. Under the proposed rule, an individual (w/o a trust) would use the Form 4 same as now, except instead of the CLEO sign off there would just be a copy sent to the CLEO. For those using a trust or corporation/LLC, there would still be no CLEO signoff required, but each "responsible person" covered by the trust/corp/LLC would have to submit the photos and fingerprints and the CLEO would just be sent a copy.

JR1572

 

[mcinfantry]

I found this posted on another forum.

While NFA trusts would still have purpose and benefits, this would essentially eliminate the main reason most people use the: to avoid the CLEO signoff requirement. Under the proposed rule, an individual (w/o a trust) would use the Form 4 same as now, except instead of the CLEO sign off there would just be a copy sent to the CLEO. For those using a trust or corporation/LLC, there would still be no CLEO signoff required, but each "responsible person" covered by the trust/corp/LLC would have to submit the photos and fingerprints and the CLEO would just be sent a copy.

JR1572

Wow


ΜΟΡΟΝ ΛΑΒΙΑ

 

[SpeedRacer]

I found this posted on another forum.

While NFA trusts would still have purpose and benefits, this would essentially eliminate the main reason most people use the: to avoid the CLEO signoff requirement. Under the proposed rule, an individual (w/o a trust) would use the Form 4 same as now, except instead of the CLEO sign off there would just be a copy sent to the CLEO. For those using a trust or corporation/LLC, there would still be no CLEO signoff required, but each "responsible person" covered by the trust/corp/LLC would have to submit the photos and fingerprints and the CLEO would just be sent a copy.

JR1572

That's not what it is stated in the proposal.

https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/f...uctive-devices-and-certain-other-firearms.pdf

Read page 19 on. They are eliminating some verbage from the CLEO certificate, but he still has to sign off (or not) on prints and photos. And that applies to every member of the trust. If you have eight family members in your trust and want to purchase an NFA item, all eight of them must file and have their form approved by CLEO.

 

[JR1572]

That's not what it is stated in the proposal.

https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/f...uctive-devices-and-certain-other-firearms.pdf

Read page 19 on. They are eliminating some verbage from the CLEO certificate, but he still has to sign off (or not) on prints and photos. And that applies to every member of the trust. If you have eight family members in your trust and want to purchase an NFA item, all eight of them must file and have their form approved by CLEO.

Read page 16 as it relates to the signature of the CLEO.

Also read pages 25 and 26 as it relates to the same.

They acknowledge something on 16 and are open to proposal on another. Plus, they acknowledge some verbiage being removed from the certification.

"I have no information indicating that the transferee will use the firearm or device
described on this application for other than lawful purposes."

Above would be removed. Apparently that sentence gives CLEO's the willies.

JR1572

 

[SpeedRacer]

Read page 16 as it relates to the signature of the CLEO.

Also read pages 25 and 26 as it relates to the same.

They acknowledge something on 16 and are open to proposal on another. Plus, they acknowledge some verbiage being removed from the certification.

"I have no information indicating that the transferee will use the firearm or device
described on this application for other than lawful purposes."

Above would be removed. Apparently that sentence gives CLEO's the willies.

JR1572

I know. But the CLEO still signs a certificate. I didn't see anything in there about the CLEO "just gets a copy", correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I'm all about mandating CLEO Sign Off but the law needs to be changed to MANDATE they sign once you background shows clear. No more ...I don't sign those...

 

[SpeedRacer]

I'm all about mandating CLEO Sign Off but the law needs to be changed to MANDATE they sign once you background shows clear. No more ...I don't sign those...

I don't know if they can. The more I read about the whole process the more of a cluster **** it seems. Basically, CLEOs currently are mandated to sign the papers. However, there's no real power behind the mandate and no way to enforce it. They're basically asking local law enforcement to devote resources to something that doesn't have anything to do with them and I'm not sure if it would be lawful to force them to. Or they'd have to fund it somehow, which would probably be an even bigger cluster****.

CLEOs don't necessarily even refuse to sign them, they just simply don't do it. Same result but I guess different legally. Since they can't impose a timeframe, they can just ignore them indefinitely.

I do agree though. Either make them sign or eliminate that whole part of the process altogether and find another way to verify identity and do background checks at the fed level.

 

[met7881]

Had no problem in St. tamanny getting a signoff for a silencer, This was last year. Met with Deputy Chief, he signed off. La legislature made it easier to "justify" a silencer for hog hunting at night.

 

[Chris88]

Had no problem in St. tamanny getting a signoff for a silencer, This was last year. Met with Deputy Chief, he signed off. La legislature made it easier to "justify" a silencer for hog hunting at night.

Does anyone know if the sheriff in St Charles parish signs off?

 

[CEHollier]

Does anyone know if the sheriff in St Charles parish signs off?

From what I have read in other threads this seems to be a problem. People asking if Sheriff XYZ signs the forms. Bitching because they don't. If that restriction has been removed it's one less obstacle to clear.

 

[Chris88]

From what I have read in other threads this seems to be a problem. People asking if Sheriff XYZ signs the forms. Bitching because they don't. If that restriction has been removed it's one less obstacle to clear.

Yeah just trying to get my ducks in a row just in case. I am reading it may are may not be removed . I guess everyone is trying to get ready for the worst.