freedive10
-Global Mod-, Caballoloco
I hear they got them cheap in Iraq right now! Hell, some are free with the key in the egnition just waiting for you.
Lawmakers aim to curb military surplus program for police after Ferguson
- Thread starter freedive10
- Start date
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I hear they got them cheap in Iraq right now! Hell, some are free with the key in the egnition just waiting for you.
I'd encourage ANYONE interested in laws or gun rights to at least attend once, even if they do not speak. Too many people have strong emotions or arguments for/against bills yet have no idea how they become law.
All gun owners should be NRA members, but thats a separate topic.
What would rednecks do with military surplus?
http://youtu.be/zv2uRH3jL7U?t=38s
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bsoileau24
Well-Known Member
saved for future repeated use. thanks
bsoileau24
Well-Known Member
You are welcome i came across it on tapiture and had to save it myself.
The supreme court has ruled in Warren vs DC that the police have no duty to protect you. Their job is law enforcement not a 24/7 bodyguard service.
david mitchell
Well-Known Member
The absolute answer is that there is no accountability in Government. In private life the individual is accountable. The IRS, local police, EPA, are not held rsponsible
for their actions, ****up move up. Ruby Ridge, Waco, Gibson Guitar, Military actions against citizens, even game wardens think they are storm troopers. Off my soap box, let the flames began.
for their actions, ****up move up. Ruby Ridge, Waco, Gibson Guitar, Military actions against citizens, even game wardens think they are storm troopers. Off my soap box, let the flames began.
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A few thing in response:
Do mistakes get made? Are bad decisions made? Do we have our share of idiots at all levels? Of course we do and I won't defend them for a second, but is taking tools away from LE as a whole the answer? I would think probably not. Sometimes **** happens. Baby's get burned with a flash bang. It sucks but does that mean get rid of the bang?
Maybe we should apply that argument to guns
See what I did there? Makes a little more sense from that angle huh?
Not a fair comparison. The government and in turn, every police force in the country, have a legal monopoly on the use of violence/force. The citizenry do not.
If I or another regular citizen were to bust down a door with guns drawn, we'd be thrown in jail.
A police officer? Not so much.
I'm not a "big government" guy, but as (ignorantly) stated above by someone else, your local leo does not report to anyone at federal level. Orders given in violation of the Constitution are invalid orders. Not sure what anything in the rest of your post has to do with anything, but hooray and good job?[/QUOTE]
Wabbit, I take it you are referring to my statement which was in another thread. If you don't understand what I meant by LE being under the fed control allow me to clarify. Crap rolls down hill. Period. Your boss has a boss and so on and so on. On a small level local is pretty much left alone but let something major happen and here they come, they take over. And take all those freebies that are given out or at little cost. You think they are free, think again, there are strings attached whether you know it or not in one form or another. That debt is gonna be called upon in due time, just wait. Remember, nothing is free just like the gimme crowd. In another method to show LE does the feds bidding, is every time an officer writes a seatbelt violation they are enforcing a fed law, not a state law. Oh it may be written as a state law it only looks that way. The seatbelt law was a law passed by political blackmail. The state had no choice in it. The fed said pass it or you loose your highway funds. So bottom line LE is doing the feds bidding. So LE may not be under direct control all the time but is under indirect control more than should be or not at all.
Just like the feds have been up in St.Louis from the beginning. They have had a command station set up in the Target parking which has been reported by eyewitness but I doubt it will be on the national news that it has been there since the start.
I'll gladly answer your question Freedive. I have been a life member of the NRA for over 20+ years and a paid yearly member for many years before that. I was also a member of GOA for a while also. How many others here have been a life member that long?
Wabbit, I take it you are referring to my statement which was in another thread. If you don't understand what I meant by LE being under the fed control allow me to clarify. Crap rolls down hill. Period. Your boss has a boss and so on and so on. On a small level local is pretty much left alone but let something major happen and here they come, they take over. And take all those freebies that are given out or at little cost. You think they are free, think again, there are strings attached whether you know it or not in one form or another. That debt is gonna be called upon in due time, just wait. Remember, nothing is free just like the gimme crowd. In another method to show LE does the feds bidding, is every time an officer writes a seatbelt violation they are enforcing a fed law, not a state law. Oh it may be written as a state law it only looks that way. The seatbelt law was a law passed by political blackmail. The state had no choice in it. The fed said pass it or you loose your highway funds. So bottom line LE is doing the feds bidding. So LE may not be under direct control all the time but is under indirect control more than should be or not at all.
Just like the feds have been up in St.Louis from the beginning. They have had a command station set up in the Target parking which has been reported by eyewitness but I doubt it will be on the national news that it has been there since the start.
I'll gladly answer your question Freedive. I have been a life member of the NRA for over 20+ years and a paid yearly member for many years before that. I was also a member of GOA for a while also. How many others here have been a life member that long?
Is this what you are wanting for the state here?: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/tiananmen.html
By the live feed posted here there was no riot going on, only unarmed protesters, but not known what was going on way down the road. The crowd was controlling themselves until swat showed up and started blaring the sound cannon, raising the tension level. And now the media is even forced over 2 miles from the area. It was stated there was no curfew tonight and they even ran them out of a parking lot.
By the live feed posted here there was no riot going on, only unarmed protesters, but not known what was going on way down the road. The crowd was controlling themselves until swat showed up and started blaring the sound cannon, raising the tension level. And now the media is even forced over 2 miles from the area. It was stated there was no curfew tonight and they even ran them out of a parking lot.
BIRDMAN 504
BIRDMAN 504
With the exception of the less lethal devices, just about everything the police are equipped with can be obtained by civilians as well. I know people who legally own all the weapons that the police have, including surplus armored vehicles. If the police are as malicious as some of the posters are implying they can be, then these crowds would have been mowed down already. The argument that most civilians don't have that equipment is invalid in my opinion. If they want it bad enough, it is available. Most can't justify the cost because in their world it is really not needed. On the other hand, when you are expected to keep the peace while facing mobs of people throwing Molotov cocktails, bricks, and in some cases shooting, I think the gear is warranted.
BTW, are any of the opponents of LEO's having the levels of armor and protection that they currently possess willing to flip the bills for injuries sustained while standing by these "peaceful protesters" (medical expenses, workmanship comp, paid leave). Or maybe they wish to meet with the families of fallen officers? I can hear it now, "sorry your (husband, wife, son, daughter, father, mother) was killed in the line of duty, but at least they didn't look intimidating to some when they died!"
BTW, are any of the opponents of LEO's having the levels of armor and protection that they currently possess willing to flip the bills for injuries sustained while standing by these "peaceful protesters" (medical expenses, workmanship comp, paid leave). Or maybe they wish to meet with the families of fallen officers? I can hear it now, "sorry your (husband, wife, son, daughter, father, mother) was killed in the line of duty, but at least they didn't look intimidating to some when they died!"
...yet they still respond...
So if the SCOTUS has told them they don't have to and are not liable to
yet when 911 is called they STILL respond as if it were the life of one of their own on the line
what exactly do you call that?
I call it, sacrifice.
...and surely you're not about to say that 911 calls aren't successful.
We all agree that dialing 911 during a home invasion might not be the best self security practice
but it works, sometimes, maybe most of the time.
Until you can point out how much, as in the success rate of 911 calls,
making the argument that they have no duty to protect is pretty futile.
The SCOTUS told them they don't have a duty to protect,
they do it anyway.
...and that just the emergency side of Police Work.
Police Presence is a whole other side in where the mere presence of Police
keeps crime at bay. Police = Law Enforcement. Without Laws being enforced
you get chaos and anarchy. aka - Deadwood.
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I would say when this...
Became this...
Though, back then... firepower used by the "professional" criminals (Mobsters) like the Thompson was what some Departments of the Federal law enforcement possessed, while Local Law Enforcement for the most part carried simple 6-shooter Pistols and, in some cases, simple Shotguns.
Your basic criminals never had such weaponry like they do today. Back then, the average criminal carried the same pistol an officer did (if at all). Even following the Viet-Nam war, criminals didn't use M-16's... but neither did Local Law Enforcement. You had to call in the National Guard to get that kind of firepower.
With the modernization of criminal weaponry (*most of which is obtained illegally) in addition to body armour, technology, etc. Local Law Enforcement has had no choice but to militarize themselves to meet or compete with or overpower the level of criminal on the street today.
*only 15% of weapons used by criminals were purchased legally or in a retail store.
It wasn't until the North Hollywood shootout (that is now glorified with a museum if you can believe that), that officers took a step back and realized how outgunned they were. Before that, SWAT teams were the only LEO's that were trained and able to use tactical assault-style weapons and they were called in extreme cases.
Following North Hollywood, departments began adding AR's to their patrol car weapons (still maintaining shotguns in the cab) trunks. Shortly thereafter, the AR's made their way into the cabs and replaced the shotguns in some instances. Now, it is a common sight in the patrol vehicles (again, in some departments). You don't see everyday officers walking around in full loadouts unless the situation calls for it.
It's not only for the officers protection (body armour, helmet, etc.), it's also a show of force. Now, do they need 300 rounds on them? Probably not. Do they need a blowout kit? YES. As they learned in North Hollywood... we lost some good cops because they bled out and emergency services couldn't reach them.
The images you see of officers in full gear are either training, or are involved in a very high risk situation... like serving a high risk warrant, raiding a drug den, etc. and most are images of SWAT, HRT, etc. either mixed with LEO (who are wearing substantially less gear) or working within their team. They are wearing what they are trained to wear and when called don't change their gear based on what the possible threat may be. Most LEO are in their patrol uniform for most of their careers. The only time they get to wear the military-style gear is in training or events.
I disagree with the de-militarization of LEO because it's not an every-day thing. This isn't the standard of law enforcement around the country unlike the media would have everyone believe.
I think this is more about a fundamental distrust of the police. If we trusted them no one would care what they had.
We are seeing more aggressive police tactics and we wonder how far will it go.
The police is an entity, like all entities they are self preserving and self perpetuating. Like the government it grows and needs more power and money. It has it's own union and lobby that looks out for its interests and less about the people the protect.
I believe that's why we are afraid of police being well armed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We are seeing more aggressive police tactics and we wonder how far will it go.
The police is an entity, like all entities they are self preserving and self perpetuating. Like the government it grows and needs more power and money. It has it's own union and lobby that looks out for its interests and less about the people the protect.
I believe that's why we are afraid of police being well armed.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Totally true. On a related note, the Governor of MO made a statement calling for the demilitarization of the police, then less than 24 hours later called in the military.
Now instead of swat vans and AR's you've got humvees, choppers, and BDU's. Makes perfect sense.
While I agree that the officers should have the blowout kits and other forms of med kits and the training to use them, this is not accurate. The only two people to die in the North Hollywood shoot-out were the perpetrators.
correct, but he was skewing facts. it was the gunman that bled to death because they wouldn't allow EMS to enter a hot zone... which is standard procedure for EMS.
To jog memory:
The LAPD did not allow Matasareanu to receive medical attention, stating that ambulance personnel were following standard procedure in hostile situations by refusing to enter "the hot zone," as Matasareanu was still considered to be dangerous, plus there were still reports and/or the belief that there was a third gunman still loose. Some reports indicate that he was lying on the ground with no weapons for approximately an hour before ambulances arrived, and was groaning in pain and pleading for help. A lawsuit on behalf of Matasareanu's children was filed against members of the LAPD, claiming that Matasareanu's civil rights had been violated and that he was allowed to bleed to death. The lawsuit was tried in United States District Court in February and March 2000, and ended in a mistrial with a hung jury. The suit was later dropped when Matasareanu's family agreed to dismiss the action with a waiver of malicious prosecution.
